occur. we are not certain -- >> the cbo is wrong? >> just look at the numbers. there are 8 million people, 8, 9 million people on the exchange currently. how do they get to 14 million people uninsured if only 8 million are on the exchange. i guess they are individuals who they assume are on medicaid who aren't paying anything in the medicaid system who are not going to take the medicaid policy just because the mandate ended or something happened? it's just not believable is what we would suggest. we'll look at the numbers and see. >> mr. secretary, without that mandate to buy coverage, would you not concede that millions of people will not have insurance under this plan? >> no. i wouldn't concede that at all. >> you would not say millions of people will lose insurance? >> they'll be able to buy a coverage policy they want for themselves and their family. they'll have the choices that they want. think about the numbers that the top line -- just the top line on