>> i think he attracts a co-op courage. he sees that courage in people who make it on their own. >> the psycho babble mumbo jumbo. nothing is coming out of his mouth. >> listen, listen, listen, listen. listen, everyone. but to his point, there are a lot of questionable people around this president or who were involved in the campaign. all you have to do is look at flynn, same thing. start would the lock her up or whatever and now he had to be fired. there's a lot of questionable people. it says something about his choices. >> but here's the thing. >> go ahead. >> you just said a lot of people. >> a number of. there are a number. >> but if you look at manafort, manafort's problems are not going to be from the campaign. manafort's problems are from precampaign phase. it's from money involved long before he was even looking at it as a possible -- >> we don't know that. manafort was in that meeting in trump tower with the russian lawyer. how do we know? [ overlapping dialog ]