that discussion, because yes, that is an argument people make, but this policy doesn't even work. while we're destroying our global image while we're actually ruining young people's lives, chaildren's lives, puttig them in harm's way, we have a policy that doesn't even work. it's proven to be flawed. >> you think there was no crisis until now? you think the ms-13 and the drug traffickers and the human traffickers, you think none of that was happening until now? >> with all due respect, mason, these kids are not ms-13. these kids are not animals. these kids are children, jason. so when you're talking about this issue, we have an ms-13 gang problem in the united states of america. that's one issue. but don't try to put the audience in a pretzel conflating the fact that we have kids there, and the president of the united states, your former boss, calls this a humanitarian crisis and he can fix it. >> i get that you don't like the zero tolerance policy, we can't