inappropriate payoff. >> just lastly, sarah sanders would not rule out a pardon for paul manafort. you said that any attempt to pardon him would be an abuse of power. what kind of congressional action would it require? >> i started putting this down last christmas saying firing mueller or starting to pardon family members or close associates would push us over the line. everything since then from his performance in helsinki where he cow you totowed to a russian prt and starting to threaten members of our national security community by taking away security clearances because of people exercising their first amendment rights, if this president now starts pardoning people that might have the goods on his bad deeds, even the most a ardent of r. supporter ardent supporters of the president, i hope they stand up to rule of law and not rule of trump. >> thank you. coming up, i'll talk with