ethic of public service was something that he should do. it was something he believed in, he lived it, he wanted these young people to live it as well. and it was really such an impressive thing that he was -- now he had a few barbed lines about some of our past exchanges. >> sure. >> which were well received. >> you were going to get it with him. he meant what he said. >> they always came with humor. >> he said to me, how can such a big head hold so few ideas that make sense. >> exactly. >> and i was laughing. he meant it. he was a combatant. he wanted to battle ideas. he was a fighter in every different field, venue there was s.e. and i wonder -- >> i'm sorry chris. >> i want to bring s.e. on. you don't have people like that in politics. setting aside the completely unique service he had by political standards. coming into office he achieved something and sacrificed in a