position because he's a witness. he's something that mueller is looking at for information. and being a witness and advocate at the same time is an inherit conflict. it is difficult for a lawyer to do that. on the going forward basis, the white house chief council is the defender of the white collar criminal defense lawyer. that's the reality of it. and it is making sense for somebody who is an independent of not being a witness. >> and this is someone who i mentioned was involved in pivotal mentions. the first 18 months where this person has single-handedly kept this president from firing the special counsel, robert mueller. what is your reaction to this? >> president trump before he was president hired lawyers who did what he wanted them to do. he hired lawyers like michael cohen to get things done. he's not used to people saying no to him. and don mcgahn understood his role to represent the presidency. that meant saying no to the president. so i don't know if the firing