the wall. are you okay with that? >> i'm not okay with calling it a spectacle, erin. i, frankly, appreciated the transparency. i've been in a lot of meetings like that, and those kind of tough meetings among people that just disagree are pretty standard on capitol hill and i think the american people can handle it. >> so, when he says he's proud to shut down the government over the wall, you don't think that was showboating or grandstanding? you take it face value, you think he's going to do it. >> i can't speak for the president. i can give you my perspective. i don't want to see government shut down. i think we ought to surprise ourselves and try to do something intelligent and try to work it out. having said that, i don't think the president's bluffing, as i said earlier today, if i were playing poker right now with the president, and i saw his facial expressions and his attitude across the table and i didn't