couple of issues like that. if you look at how he has addressed those, it's been very measured. he has spoken or tried to speak more aspirational he. he doesn't speak about president trump by name, which is a courtesy the current president doesn't afford him, but he talks about what our values are when it comes to these issues. i think he also knows if he goes out there and weighs in on every -- daily back and forth, it will diminish his voice. >> martha: and that would be so unlike president obama. i found this comment really almost, , go from a democratic fund-raiser who was making the argument, this is the second call for it that we have. she is making the argument that there are such extreme times and what's happening on the border requires extreme measures, and she settled the immigration stuff if you were able to go away over the line and get arrested and something way out there, that would be a galvanizing event. >> especially since he did similar things, it would be