that's not their call. i say hold a live debate. i think it can be done safely. we just did a debate in person with the vice presidential candidates. and let the american people see the candidates in full. once again, the permanent wash types in my judgment, sandra, they think the american people are morons and can't make decisions for themselves. i just think this virtual debate is a bad, bad idea. i don't blame trump for not participating. >> sandra: the difference is the president has tested positive for covid-19 and has since been on the road to recovery since then thankfully. the commission says they're doing it for safety reasons. >> sure they do but they're not. they're not. just move the debate back a few days and require both candidates to get a doctor's