mr. klaas understands that this person, chris, you're trying to talk about him like you can connect with him. you cannot connect with him. he is a sociopath. that is not my opinion. that is a clinical fact from almost 20 years of dealing with people like mr. castro. so you cannot try to explain why he did what he did. in his mind, that was harmonious. in his mind, that was a home. for us, it is evil. we had the opportunity and the unfortunate predicament to look at evil in the eye. and hopefully, we will never see this man again. >> tell me about court procedure. maybe mark knows this, too. you first, seema. is it within the bounds of an attorney for the victims there to call to order that moment and say you cannot talk about. >> no. >> you can't shut the guy up? >> no, and okay, so just to be clear. the attorneys for the victims, they are civil attorneys that were doing some just kind of i think damage control.