say, wait a minute, we want the government to do these things. we want it to go out and patrol, you know, food-borne illness. it makes the government look good and people trying to stop the government look bad. >> that's in the poll numbers, as well, when we look at who is blamed by the american people here, we have a clear sort of preponderance of people blaming republicans rather than blaming president obama. 53% of folks saying the shutdown is really the republicans' fault, but in the end, is it possible that they -- what we're fighting over here is to get back to sequester levels, to raise the debt ceiling, as though this is a thing that ought to be fought about. >> yeah, i thought president obama had a very good point when he kept saying raising the debt ceiling is not a concession to me. that's the job of the congress. you raise a good point, and i think it's one that what