in law, i'm kind of smiling, that's the way it breaks down. you have the one argument. you have the other. and then the truth without the jokes about what mayor giuliani said about the truth yesterday. but the truth is in the middle. the point is yes, they were being cooperative. but at the same time, unlike me being callmillion about a bank robbery defendant, i don't know anything about the bank robbery. he does know about conversations. >> not only does he know about conversations but it's different than me going in frankly. i'm not a lawyer. >> no, absolutely. >> mcgahn knows exactly what he's saying and how potentially it could fit into the big picture. >> the issues under investigation are the firing of various officials and mcgahn was there as conversations took place. so it's not like calling a lawyer in, tell me about the bank robbery your client did two years ago. i wasn't there. >> yes, it's very different. so, christine, you have the president suggesting if you fight back, they say it's obstruction. well, i'm fighting back, this isn't obstruction. i mean, is fighting back just