this is the united states of america. we don't do that here, or we sure shouldn't do that here. and this represents the kind of thing that i was -- you know, i was brought up to believe certain things. we would use the phrase, well, that couldn't happen here. these are the kinds of things that should never happen in the united states of america. >> bottom line, then, what would you do? >> well, obviously, we need more -- we do need that comprehensive immigration policies, we do need to have more border agents, we do need to have more judges, we do need to have more open -- we do need to have more ports of entry that are open. remember, it was the president himself that closed so many of them. and we do need a serious humanitarian addressing of what goes on not only at the border but also in guatemala and in honduras and in el salvador. we have to see this from a comprehensive perspective, but this idea that we're just going to criminalize people who did not do anything criminal. seeking asylum in the united states is a statutory right. it is not a crime. but i'll tell you what is a crime, taking a child from their