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convoy of vehicles. so, you know, it was almost like being in the room with his spitting image puppet. and in the case of those two men, you had also spent time reporting on the consequences of the actions of their government. considerable amount, yeah — and their victims. how did you square the two men who were in front of you, who was speaking to you with apparent conviction, and what you knew to be the cause of their instructions? well, i tried to use it against them. for example, with gaddafi, he was saying, "my people love me. "they love me all" — i remember him saying that. he said it in english. and i said, "well, hang on, a minute. "i was just earlier on today, people were out on the streets of tripoli and they were protesting". he said, "no, they were supporting me". i said, "no, they weren't. "they were saying �*down with gaddafi'". "no, they weren't." i actually think he believed in his own propaganda. he lived in a bubble.