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increasingly conservative party. a factionalized increasing conservative party. and now he's making these missteps -- >> i did not take what he said that way at all. if you were president at the time. a lot of people thought, look, i would have done the exact same thing. >> but knowing what he would do today he would do the same thing. >> i think you'll see a clarification from him probably. >> you do? >> his point was if i'm there at the time and saw -- when he said hillary clinton would vote for it in the moment when they had what they had, i think a lot of people are making it a bigger deal than it really is. he said if you think i'm going to run away from my brother on this one, it's not going to be on that issue at that time -- >> not only is he not running away -- >> i mean that's exactly the point. ben is making the point. >> what's he supposed to say? >> but the point is is that