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broad principles and says, well, we have the electoral system, where states will each have votes on presidents, but it doesn't lay out the mechanics of things will happen on december 14th and june 6th and so on. i think he's saying that because the president with as tinkering with that none of that's expressly prohibited by the constitution so it's just a technical -- to paula he is a point it's a little confusing where they're going with it. >> and those counts aren't counts of violating the constitution. they are counts of violating u.s. federal criminal laws. 18 usc 371. i mean, there's -- he's conflating the two to try to say, look, it was a -- >> that's an interesting point. important point. >> -- it was a trivial argument about dates, about just postponing the count from this day to that day. it's not trivial, but that's not actually what he's been charged with. >> both of this and the aspirational thing, it -- you know, at the heart of their defense is going to be we were