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the border. he did it for political purposes. he did it as a political weapon and it is backfiring to the point that even fellow democrats who have embraced sanctuary cities for a long time are now coming to grips with the idea this is a really bad situation. >> harris: what you said is so important, richard. i want to know if you caught that. charlie called it an immediate problem at the border that biden undid but flipping the switch on trump policies. no one thought whatever trump had place, nobody has negotiated a better way forward yet. presidents and congresss have tried but they haven't. what we have in place is basically a stopgap, stem the flow and biden flipped the switch on that. >> i do think you're right in the fact we have a stopgap measure. this is not a biden border crisis, this is an american outdated immigration problem that every president -- >> harris: both can be true.