categories, there are good heart liberals. if we're nice with the evil they will nice to us. they believe it. they're wrong, but i think they are sincere. i think they really think, why don't we put all our money in big pot and they don't understand that socialism fails. there are others, though, that i believe fully complete this is about power for them and for the advancement of their political agenda. do you see that? >> every part of it. nobody has a monopoly on virtue or vice. there is manipulation on every side. the question is, can you see on the other side people acts inning good faith who are clearly trying to do the right thing. you talked about the obama the appeaser but nobody doubts that appeasesers in history they were trying to protect their country. >> chamberlin probably believed that peace in his -- probably