the son who is now decreased. that family is facing the fax probe as well. so they are not out of the woods by any means. we know the back office people have been indicted. other people who work odd closely with bernie madoff have been indicted. but when you talk about lack of remorse, he's talking about -- he sets up the interview, he's saying i feel remorse and i'm sort of sorry, but then he says that everybody made money. megyn: do you have think there is true remorse on his part? >> i think you need to assume everything in there is a lie. that's what white collar criminal do. they lie, they manipulate. everything is said to get a game at the ends. megyn: why is he such a rock star in jail? he's successful. i think some of the inmates think he has financial advice for them. he's considered a brilliant guy.