justice foundation a victims' rights advocacy group and jordan a professor of the university of texas school of law. welcome to you both. gentlemen. jordan, a lot of the discomfort about governor perry and the death penalty centers around the case of cameron todd willingham, a man expected i guess in 1991, if i remember correctly, of setting his home on fire and thereby killing his two children. why don't you tell me, what was troubling about this case, from your point of view? >> well, there were really three things that were troubling about governor perry's involvement in the case. first, at the time of willingham's execution, pretty clear the governor's office had clear information the arson evidence was junk science used to convict him. an opportunity governor perry had at that time to prevent a wrongful execution.