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i also want to state, and you'll hear this repeatedly, that donald trump is a defendant. he has rights and he's legally presumed innocent in the american system and court of law. reading from the indictment, and then we're going to bring our lawyers back in. it states that trump pursued, quote, unlawful mean of discounting legitimate votes and subverting the election results, and goes on to state trump sought to enlist the vice president to use his ceremonial role at the january 6th certification to, quote, fraudulently alter the election results. bringing in christy greenberg. when you look at some of those details as i mentioned, not all involve the violence of january 6th. some of what is now newly put down in writing here, efforts to lobby or issue illegal orders to the vice president -- smith is saying that would have been an illegal plot even if no one stormed the capitol. >> right. i think this indictment -- i mean, he is in his taylor swift speak now era, jack smith. this is a speaking indictment 45