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to just one thing, steph. that is that he has total immunity for anything that he did but he can argue in some way, shape, form, was related to his job as president for the four years he was in office. he is, in essence, arguing that presidents are kings. for that reason, i, think this argument ends up being a loser in front of the court of appeals. >> okay, here's what i don't get, mark, i think i'm in a big circle jerk. donald trump is on the podium saying, if he becomes president, he plans to indict joe biden. at the very same time, the basis of his defense and all of these charges is that he cannot be charged because he has presidential immunity. how can those two things be true? >> are you suggesting that donald trump could be a hypocrite? i've never heard such a thing. look, what is being argued here is quite extraordinary. we are hearing from trump that his interference at the 2020 election was somehow an official presidential act that he had constitutional authority