pointing out these were three democratic appointees on a highly polarized court with very conservative republicans, very liberal democrats. these were three liberal democrats. i think that also is going to give you a hint of how the case is going to come out. >> even if they rule in december, wouldn't the president then try to take it to the supreme court? >> he would try. you know, you don't automatically get to go to the supreme court. the question of whether the court would give him a stay on this, that's become a huge issue in many different cases, on abortion, among other things, about when the supreme court steps in and just stops everything. if he loses in the d.c. circuit, you can be sure he will hope that the six conservatives on the supreme court will give him a stay. >> john, as far as you can tell, did former president trump's attorneys actually put forward any new arguments today? >> not really. they sort of rehashed what they had done at the lower court, and that's why they were getting some doubt. they were getting some very good