hamburg, germany, a fact we tend to gloss over. top german officials admitted information from u.s. intelligence has disrupted several terrorist plots inside germany itself. this is a complicated picture. >> we're talking about millions of phone calls all in secret without the knowledge of those people in those countries on foreign soil. why is it -- why is it wronging to asking that question of whether or not this is legal or even right to do such a thing? >> well, i think legal is one question. spaunl is generally illegal when you're doing it. that's part of the rules of the game. that's why you're not supposed to get caught. but the reality, it is very complicated since so much data is also shared with european partner governments. this metadata collection is often shared with others. metadata collection, you hear figures about 60 million spanish calls a month. that's metadata, not intercepting of the phone calls