states, all things must be considered, with a great deal of calm and measured prudence, and this would include anyone that could be involved. and that certainly doesn't -- doesn't absolve the bidens in any way. former vice president nor his son. we should move forward very care carefully, my friend. >> as long as it's on the basis of fact. i see one small irony right now. what the president is accusing joe biden of, he must also be necessarily guilty of. the only difference between the two scenarios, holding back something in order to get something from ukraine is that we have proof that the president did it to play to political advantage, and we don't have that proof with biden. but you're right, we must go with deliberate concern and see what meat can be put on the bones. congressman clay higgins, thank you for being part of that conversation. you're always welcome here. >> thank you, chris.