of the particular conduct was the president and it's going to be a balancing act for any court to evaluate whether it was such a frolic and detour. if what he was doing is self-preservation in terms of his power, that's a very different analysis for a judge to look at to see if a president or former president should have those benefits. >> speaking of liability, laura just talked about that. what do you think about this idea of liability and the idea they want to turn that it could become the first amendment issue? >> well, that's a great question, don. this is a novel case from my estimation. i'm not the lawyer on the panel but it's a novel case and look at the facts, the defense will be these are first amendment issues here and i think that's a real problem but we have to step back, though. there are three things going on simultaneously. civil suits and the january 6th committee and doj looking at