hello, everyone. i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, a flat tax from presidential candidate, rick perry. >> it is time to pass a tax that is flat and fair and frees our employers and out people to invest and grow and prosper. >> he calls it flat. but the bottom line is it isn't really. the right word is sort of lumpy. here's why. a true flat tax would mean all americans start paying a flat tax of 20%. that's perry's rate on their income with no deductions. that's not how this works though. you keep your current rate or pick his new 20% rate. by allowing people to remain in their current tax bracket, americans will continue to pay different rates. there are six federal income tax rates now. perry's new plan, because we don't have a 20, will make it seven. that's lumpy. a poor flat tax doesn't allow for deductions, capital dividends, state and local taxes. we're joking a little. we all want bold ideas, and politically, you can't wake up and throw out and old system and go to a truly flat tax if you wanted one overnight. to tell you the truth, there is something appealing about this. >> the best representation in my plan is this postcard. this is the size of what we're talking about right here. >> does this plan go in the right direction or not? >> david, one of the architects of the plan, ran for senate in new york. david, great to see you and appreciate you're taking the time to come and explain this. let me start with the big question, why did you and governor perry make the decision to allow people to pick between the current tax system and his new flat tax rate? >> hi, erin. we want to make sure no one is going to pay a higher tax amount than what they are in the current system, so the easiest way to do that is give them the choice. a lot of this program is about freedom, giving people freedom to choose with their own money. >> is there any situation a wealthy person would pay more in taxes than they do right now or sounds like you're saying no increase for them at all? >> actually, if they make more money, which i think they will, under this system, they will pay more tax. the same is true of somebody who's unemployed right now. this kind of a plan is going to create millions and millions of jobs. all of those people will pay more taxes than what they're paying right now, which is nothing, if they're unemployed. >> i know in all of these plans, it comes down to economic growth and jobs. that is an unknown in one situation. it does seem, david, the people will comparison shop, pick between the old and new and pick the one they pay the least, the rational thing to do. if most people get a tax cut, we are going to have less revenue, right? >> i think most people will choose the simple program because they will pay less taxes under it and it will be a lot easier. the savings in terms of paperwork is gigantic. i don't think that's actually going to become a big problem in this kind of a changeover system. i think people will say, well, it won't collect enough money. that gets into do you really want washington to keep collecting? they already collect over $2 trillion every year. that's the argument we need to have. the whole concept of this program is, cut spending and tax, balance the budget and get the economy to grow. cut, balance and grow. that's a powerful concept. you put all those things together and you create millions and millions of jobs. >> right. so you're saying there will be less revenue, you just think you'll make up for it in terms of the spending cuts that you've put in here i know was $100 billion in year one. >> i don't think there'll be less revenue because i think there'll be more people working. i'm sorry. i'm disagreeing a little with you on that. people will pay a lower tax rate than before, but there's going to be a lot of loopholes that are closed on the corporate side included. a huge number of the complexity of the code is just going to go away, those loopholes. that means the people benefitting from those, largely it has been washington d.c. that's benefitting from the loopholes are not going to make as much money as they did under the current complicated system. >> where do the cuts come from? i'm curious. because in year one, the year the governor gave the 100 billion dollar figure. based on last year, about 3% of the total budget, interestingly half as much as we will spent on interest on our debt, but it doesn't sound like much. i'm wondering where the cuts are. you said non-defense discretionary, which does leave you with programs that affect the poor, veterans and homeless. >> i focus mostly on the tax side, as you think where budget cuts can come, i think we need a real upheaval in washington in the culture of spending. that means every cabinet department. i think what president obama should be doing is calling in his cabinet and asking each one of the cabinet officers to propose 15%, you know, a big number cut, and then weed through that because there's a huge number of redundant agencies. the u.s. government now has 200 independent agency, meaning they're out from under much oversight. that's very dangerous. so it's an out of control organization. i don't think it's right to -- i think there can be lots and lots of cuts right off the bat, in the first hundred day savings. >> bottom line is the principal, philosophy you have, fair to say, a classic economic argument, you think by cutting tax, economic growth will grow so much you will make up for the lost revenue in rate in terms of economic growth, correct? >> remember, it's not just cutting tax, cutting spending as well. that's a critical part of this mix. and also the regulatory component. the economy, we have a wonderful economy that's being weighed down by friction. so it's called. the idea is to release that economy and that can be done with tax, spending and regulation, all three together. >> david malpass, good to see you. thank you for taking the time and making a case for it. when you took a poll, almost half of americans have a favorable view of the flat tax. 47%. 36% hold a favorable view of the 9-9-9. is this plan dough to be enough to save perry's candidacy? i brought along, just in case the postcards. to be fair, the postcard does expand. when i compared the font, i have it over here, it really is the 1040 ez. this is very little font. you have to use a magnifying glass. all jokes aside, what do you think? >> i like a one page. i like a flatter simpler tax code. the fact he made it optional makes it an easier sell, and it doesn't bother me he kept a couple deductions and i think politically the right policy. >> he did address the inevitable claims of saying i will not tax social security benefits anymore. he is trying. do you think he will succeed? >> i don't think it will succeed in a general election but will help him in the republican primaries. the conservative base will like this plan. many conservatives always wanted a flat tax. i think it's a bold and radical plan and will help his campaign. he's brought on strong advisors now. having said that, the left will go after this with pitchforks. what they see is, what are you doing? you're lowering taxes on the wealthy. after all this debate about whether we should raise taxes on the wealthy, he comes along, lower taxes on the wealthy. with all this deficit, how do you pay for it? cut services on middle class and poor? is that a plan you think the majority of americans will rally to once they understand that? that's the politics of it. i think it will help them with republicans in the primary. we do need tax reform in this country. he's bold to go after it. at the end of this day, we have the most unequal country we've had since herbert hoover. the gap between wealthy and people at the bottom is the biggest we have seen. we have the greatest inequality than any developed nation. will we really pursue a policy to make things more unequal. we have to wait, one last thing, we have to see the economy assess this. if it really brings a lot of growth. that will help. >> that's always the big question. the jobs created is always. >> every tax cut does not pay for itself. the big achilles plan is it's geared for primary voters not general electorate. the tea party was all about dealing with generational theft of deficits and debt. this is about tax cut. tax cut theology is winning the policy republican debate and primary. >> he will cap the budget 13% and 18% gdp. i read that and we know about the budget we didn't have one this year. $882 billion is how much we had to cut it out to cap the spending at 18% gdp. you won't get there through cuts in discretionary. >> you won't. it will come out of medicare. you have to go after medicare. >> they've all been gun-shy about specifics on entitlement reform. if this is an opening bid about tax reform, great. if his rhetoric about closing is to help the super committee find courage on this, great. this is not a balanced plan in terms of dealing with deficit and debt and largely silent on entitlement and pleasing to the base. i think it's a good plan politically and a good opening bid to move us towards tax reform, not a general election bid. >> thanks. we appreciate it. out next, a two week old, yes, baby rescued from the rubble in turkey. the latest in the michael jackson trial. a witness got sick on the stand. what does herman cain have in common with a mobile phone salesman? 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[ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. the number tonight, 153. that is how many miles per hour over the speed limit formula one racers will be driving when they race down imperial boulevard in new jersey. on average, f1 cars travel at speeds of 188 miles an hour. speed limit on that road is a paltry 35. the formula 1 grand prix of america court imperial will take place june 13th. an amazing rescue today at the site of the devastating earthquake in turkey. emergency workers pulled a 2-week-old baby girl from the rubble. reporting from the scene, i spoke to diana magnay a couple minutes before the show. i asked her to describe what was a miraculous event. >> that's exactly how it felt to witness this. a little 14-day-old baby girl taken from the rubble, basically what happens, it was about 8:00 or 9:00 this morning. the rescue workers on this site behind me heard noises, heard sounds. they managed to make contact with the mother of this little baby girl. they found out that the baby girl, the mother and the paternal grandmother were all trapped in the same spot. so they worked to try and carve a tunnel through the debris to the three of them. they only managed to carve a small narrow tunnel through which the mother gave the rescuer the little baby girl. the rescuer was chosen because he was so thin and small and able to make it through the tunnel. we spoke to him. he said, i've done this job for 12 years. i've never pulled someone out alive from the rubble. this was an amazing moment for me. when the mother handed me that child into my hands, it felt like i was having a child myself. he already had a little boy. they worked to trying to widen the tunnel where the mother and grandmother were trapped and after a couple hours able to bring them out in fairly quick succession. it was an extraordinary moment. >> it is. to think of a child that lung, being able to survive without having had food, such a miracle. obviously, i see the work going on around you. it's 24 hours. we're all well aware, a lot of the buildings not built for this sort of thing to happen and the death count keeps going higher. do you have any sense from the emergency workers you've spoken to, how much longer they can keep going or they will survive and the death toll going to? >> reporter: cold is a complicating factor also. i spoke to one rescue worker today brought in from istanbul, and is overseeing these sites and said i have been sent around the world and people can still be brought alive from the rubble between 17 and 20 days after an earthquake like this. there is no reason to give up hope at this point. although the rescue workers going through debris are more often than not pulling out dead bodies, there is still hope they can bring out dead bodies. and at another site yesterday, a 10-year-old little girl was dragged out. i want to add one more detail about the baby, phenomenal. she was actually born premature. she was three weeks premature. she still theoretically should have been in her mother's stomach rather than survivor of a huge earthquake in her hometown. extraordinary. >> diana, thanks so much. hope you are able to get a little bit of sleep. i'm feeling really dizzy. i'm sorry. my vision is a little blurred. if you can just give me a minute. >> the nurse who treated michael jackson for insomnia took more than a minute. the judge let her leave the stand for an hour. she became ill during testimony. ted rollins joins us from los angeles. i assume she's okay, right? >> absolutely. she needed about an hour to compose herself, and then she got back on the stand, and was on the stand a good part of the morning. >> the judge used this delay to make a pretty crucial ruling that means jurors will not see the financial terms of jackson's comeback concert. how serious is that decision to the defense? >> they wanted to establish that michael jackson was under excruciating financial pressure here because the contract he had signed with aeg was he would perform these concerts and if he didn't, he was on the hook for all of the production costs up to the point where the concerts were pulled. at that point where they were having these discussions and things were going badly, some 30 to $40 million had been spent. not only would jackson not have made a lot of money, he owed a ton of money and had financial problems. they wanted it in, the judge said no. >> ted, thank you very much. we'll see if the testimony finishes this week, gone longer than people thought. still "outfront," herman cain's new ad and why we can't resist showing you. and president obama getting antonio banderas to help out court the hispanic vote. and talking about sibling rivalry. we're making tomorrows like clockwork. ♪ for all the different things our customers planned for. like a college education. or, the perfect wedding. ♪ ♪ i love ya, tomorrow! 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[ woman announcing ]bsite there's an easier way. create your own small-business site... with intuit websites. choose a style, customize, publish and get found... from just $7.99 a month. get a 30-day free trial... at intuit.com. now, a story we can't resist. herman cain released a strange knew campaign ad this week, via youtube. in the ad, one of cain's advisors, mark block, is seen advising the candidate before taking a drag on a cigarette and blowing smoke. most people thought it was strange that someone was smoking in a campaign ad and then just how familiar the ad seemed. we realized why that is. there is a marketing duo that creates commercials for struggling businesses around the country. one of the commercials they produced in 2009 was for a mobile home company in alabama called coleman liquidation. we put the two ads side by side, mobile home and herman cain, we noticed a number of striking similarities. we're not sure if it's an eerie coincidence or the same ad company helped herman cain with this one. the cain camp won't confirm who did the ad. we can't resist showing you the two edits and letting you decide. >> mark block here. since january, i've had the privilege of being the chief of staff to herman cain and the chief operating officer of friends to herman cain. tomorrow, is one day closer to the white house. i really believe that herman cain will put united back in the united states of america. and if i didn't believe that, i wouldn't be here. we've run a campaign like nobody's ever seen, but then, america's never seen a candidate like herman cain. we need you to get involved, because together, we can do this. we can take this country back. ♪ i am america one voice united we stand ♪ ♪ i am america >> we just couldn't resist. still "outfront," the "outfront" five. obama's must win. >> what happens in this year is going to be more consequential, more important to the future of our kids and our grandchildren than just about any election we've seen in a very long time. where is baby lisa? >> i do not think she had anything to do with it or him at this time. oldest, youngest or middle child? do you have any guess as to what i am in my birth order? >> all of this "outfront" in our second half. ge of more than 540 miles per tank. so you can catch morning tee time in monterey and the afternoon meeting in los angeles, all without running out of gas. just make sure you don't run out of gas. ♪ but my nose is still runny. 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