same sidewalk as the white person. you county have that happening overtry in society today. so how does one measure progress. >> that. >> that's something we can measure -- >> to say in 1985 or 1995 that it was, you know, it's worse now -- >> then look at the realities. is the fact that black and brown faces make up a majority of the men that are in prison. look at the majority -- >> -- industrial complex. >> and the prison pipeline. talk about what's going on in inner cities where people are -- >> talking about the videotape that we're waiting for chicago for -- >> that's reality. >> that is reality. >> well, it is a perception of reality. >> right. >> because what you will hear from the other side is you and the media decide how to make these things related to everybody else. and instead of somebody attacking the cops you make it the cops attacking them. instead of guys doing crimes and being in prison you make it