said that if he, in fact, as the very lawyerly text message suggested he didn't actually believe that that's what was going on. >> you have a future as a congressional investigator, those were all great questions. david. >> the other part of this quid pro quo question is not just what abby identifies as the crucial question, which was was there a linkage between the investigations and holding up this aid, but it's more than that. and the aid is important because ukraine faces an existential threat from russia on its border, but it's also standing with the president, getting a meeting with the president. this is a new president zelensky who wants to be in the u.s.'s good graces to be built up as a leader in ukraine. all of that is being held. and i think the other piece about sondland that's important, remember, there are the professional diplomats and then there are just the trump people, and not all are created equal. right? we know that there are diplomats that become that because they gave a lot of money, and that's