and what really worries me, as as well as a former western ambassador to ukraine is that there is a list of civil society acti activists, of intellectuals in kyiv that they would like to neutralize if they make a big push towards the capital. >> the ukraine still very much wants to be in nato. that is a key sticking point for svladimir putin. do you see a situation where the west might lean on ukraine a little and sort of encourage them to say, we'll give up nato aspirations? everyone i've talked to here say, that ain't happening. but do you think that might be something that the west might try to get ukraine to do? >> i'm afraid so. i think that would be the next step of the west, to pressure ukraine to either temporarily, at least, drop its nato bid, or to move ahead with the minsk accords, which it doesn't like, and grant some kind of autonomy to the occupied areas. but i can tell you, there's a lot of controversy with that nato suspension possibility here in ukraine. some people say it will drop people out on to the streets.