>> well, everyone is. meaning part of president trump's strategy is to throw this story out and he's in part comfortable with having these allegations made against him because we're talk iing about j biden and this accusation which has been discredited about his son and now joe biden is forced to respond to this question. and so i think the message that biden is try iing the make abou focusing on the president is very hard and the president has once again muddied the water with an accusation against his character that is out there. and many people don't follow the rest of the story. >> ron, real quick, we're time, but as far as the former vice president, how impactful negatively could this be for him? >> you know, look, as julian said, so far, no creditability story. ukraine officials have denied there's any improper influence wielded by him. president trump is is operating