he let's move on to edward snowden and bradley manning. they're sort of interlinked even though they don't know each other. bradley manning is facing his sentencing tomorrow. there's always been a slight difference between manning and snowden. you have the guy who's working in the military, clearly breaking the law, indiscriminately putting out almost everything he can get his hands on. wikileaks popped the whole thing into the ether. clearly damaging, there's no judicious editing. snowden's case. to be fair to the guy, he can try to be quite judicious in what he put out there, do you see that distinction? >> i do see that distinction. this is difficult for me, i go -- i have gone back and forth on this issue. one we have to have a rule of law. the government must be able to keep some secrets. there are some legitimate secrets. >> where do you draw the line? >> bull's eye, when i started in the craft of journalism, there was a line, it was a very fine