and there were times of many crises, challenges, screw ups, triumphs occasionally. so i mean, it was never a dull moment. >> when i watched "zero dark thirty" which i saw again the other day, you see that scene of water boarding. you don't believe it is torture. most people watching it would say it obviously is. why do you think there's no line crossed there? >> well, first i should make clear, the water boarding that was done in the course of the cia interrogation program, by no means are docile, was not exactly the way it was depicted in that film. i don't mean to downplay the aggressiveness of it. mr. morgan, i'm a lawyer. i'm a lawyer for the cia. and torture is a u.s. statute, is defined in u.s. statute.