the issue is at what point do you have to acknowledge in politics you have lost? >> you know, john, if you look at the history of some of this, like the individual mandate, for example, and i worked at the clinton white house in the late '90s, but before that even, the individual mandate was something that came about from primarily right-winged organizations. they were the ones who wanted it. and now these are some of the same people who are rallying against it, isn't that right? >> you're exactly right. and that's a reflection of, look, politics change with the times and it was the heritage foundation and other conservative groups back in the day when they thought there were going to be major changes with health care. we see it when the nra thinks there are major changes in gun control, it was for background checks at one point, now it isn't. conservatives were once for an individual mandate believing it if you did it on an individual basis, at least you empower the individual, the individual was making the decisions as part of the bigger process. but when the politics changed and they thought they could beat, quote-unquote, a national health care plan or a washington