>> mike, it's always going to be subjective. it's always going to be the source of debate. "rich" is a relative term. it's absolutely relative. you might feel at $400,000 in income very wealthy in mid-america. if you're living in new york city, if you're living in san francisco, you might be feeling middle class and in terms of income, you might be feeling like you're struggling financially, so it's absolutely an arbitrary line. >> i suspect that elon musk and jeff bezos regard themselves as rich or wealthy. but i can tell you, as one who did a call segment on this subject on radio this week and invited people earning at or near $400,000 or $500,000 to call, they didn't consider themselves wealthy for the reasons you identified. it's always the other guy that they think is wealthy, not themselves. >> it's absolutely right, and as a financial psychologist, i'm really interested in studying our beliefs around money. and what i have noticed is that many of us create an avatar of a