much. let's discuss this with our panel. there's an opinion piece exploring the concept of florida republican governor ron desantis, quote, outtrumping trump. he says in part, lacking trump's impulse i'veness in preference for chaos, a president desantis with his attention to detail and command of the legislative process might well match or exceed trump as liberals' worst nightmare. what do you think and could that be his ticket to the republican presidential nomination? >> well, i think that the idea of trump without the chaos and impulsiveness, i just wonder what's left really when you're talking about that. when people say that desantis is trumpy, what they mean is he's combative. he's willing to take the fight to democrats and liberals and he won't really give an inch. and that it seems to me is separate from the things that caused trump to be so unpopular and to repel a lot of traditional conservatives. it's not the same thing as