saying i want to get rid of nato. it's not the same thing as getting into fights with journalists about their faces and so forth. and i think one of the things we're seeing when people say desantis is trumpy is there's this idea that we all agree, we all dislike trump, this group of people. that doesn't mean we all disliked him for the same reasons. >> paul, let me ask you, because one of the things that desantis is doing -- i think trump was known for a lot of things, not just being impulsive, but also he ran right for culture war issues in a way that most presidents don't do as a general matter of course. they might do it in an election year, but they don't necessarily do it as a matter of course, where trump was constantly running for, i'm going to side with the people who hate colin kaepernick, example. he didn't have to say anything. and there is something of that in how desantis is approaching his job in that i think that could be very attractive to republican voters. >> absolutely. there's a lot of research that