as sony. they acted perfectly rationally. if you are them. the rest of us have to live with the consequences. i think we don't have a good notion of how to both defend ourselves against cyberattacks and, not just the u.s. government. it is obviously private industry. as well as how to respond. so when people talk about warfare, what does that mean? how are we actually supposed to respond? and it's -- it is a new era in this regard. >> kevin, to you now. u.s. investigators learned the hackers stole the computer credentials of an administrator to get access to sony's computer system. how hard on a scale of one to ten is it to do what they did? >> well, it depend. dep pendz on their internal security how they shored up their defenses. the first thing an attacker well do. go after the system administrators. because they have access to the keys of the kingdom. in fact when i am doing a