he wanted to show that bravado, and i took on mueller, and i win. if he had sat in that chair, don, you and i would have had a very different experience in processing the outcome of the mueller report because that president's ability to sit in a chair under questioning and not say something that was abusive of the truth is very small. jay sekulow and the raskins convinced him not to do that. he's a good lawyer. >> you mean we would have gotten the truth out of actually what was happening. >> maybe. a lawyer protects you, not necessarily everybody else's interests. and this same thing on the taxes. it's an important discussion to have because transparency matters. on impeachment, it's an important argument to have. you've got to admit when something's wrong, don. whether it's impeachable or not, it's a separate query. >> well, everything you said may be true. i just think when you're -- when you're the leader of the free world, the standards are higher. >> they should be. >> and if you are going to need people to protect you from your own lying self, then perhaps you should not be in that position.