sewing machine operators and others making 10 bucks an hour. just like our economy and our labor market are split, so is our manufacturing labor market. and the jobs we're bringing back, you know, there was a great "new york times" story that said, ge is bringing back jobs home. great. the jobs that were there before paid 30 bucks an hour. the new jobs ge brought back home paid $12 to $20 an hour. we have to drive the wages up there, too. >> let me risk losing out on innovation if we don't have more manufacturing jobs or bring back more? my dad who worked in industry, he says, innovation happens on the factory floor, from a guy on a line who figures out how to do something better. >> it does. have you a slew of management consultants at harvard, m.i.t. and other places saying separating innovation from production was a lousy idea. that you should try to sell -- make things in the market you're trying to sell in. where you're innovating as well.