are we actually reaching a boiling point? it sure seems that way to me. when the trump show returned from singapore, and landed on the white house lawn, the the story wasn't so much what he said, it was how dishonest he was being. >> i hate the children being taken away. the democrats have to change their law. that's their law. they were -- quiet. that's the democrats' law. we can change it tonight. we can change it right now. i will leave here -- no, no. >> you can feel the reporters' frustrations. you can hear them trying to correct the president. as you know by now, this policy about separating parents or adults from children was announced in a press release in april, then on camera by jeff sessions in may. this policy has been in effect now for a couple of months. the numbers are now coming in about how many children have been separated from their adult guardians. the numbers came out on friday. that's partly why this has become the top story in the country. the department of homeland security says about 2,000 children were separated between mid april and the end of may. you can see the number on screen. this was getting a small amount of media attention until this week. now it's getting a lot of attention. why? for one thing, democrats are seizing on the issue, writing bills and visiting the border, holding protests. some of the critics are calling the trump policy kidnapping. meantime for the first time, reporters have been allowed inside in recent days, touring some of the detention centers, not all of them. giving us a look at some of th living conditions, mostly for the boys, not for the babies. there's more reporting that needs to be done. at the same time, trump supporters are defending this new zero tolerance policy and blaming the media for blowing it out of proportion. how did we get here? what does this tell us about agenda setting? joining me is brian karam, a cnn political analyst. olivia nuzzi and doug hyatt and a cnn political commentator. how did we end up here? >> that's a good question. i will tell you, it didn't start with the trump administration. it began probably 30, 40 years ago when i first started covering the border. this has been an issue that has been buried by both sides, the democrats and republicans. it has been glossed over. it came full force because of the steps that donald trump took. that is because they have the mistaken belief that this will act as a deterrent, separating parents and childrens will deter those who have nothing and who have already lost everything. you take a look at the situations that you showed just a few seconds ago with the video showing where these people are being housed and point of fact, and it's cruel to say this, but those are better living conditions than what they come from. anything you say about deterring immigration by doing this is just flat i wrong. the president has made the decision to do it. he has lied to the american people about how it's being done. he could change it if he wanted. crossing into the united states can be treated as a civil or a criminal problem. what this administration has done is chosen to do is to treat it as a criminal problem and separate the parents and the children in the mistaken belief that it somehow will deter people who have absolutely nothing, deter them from coming over here. that's sad. >> what i have seen happen are journalists standing up for american values, family values. you saw this. there were journalists saying, i'm an immigrant. that's happening now. we hear immigrants say i'm a mother, i'm a father. is that what you see happening as well, a form of advocacy? >> i wouldn't say that. i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that this administration are lying about this policy. donald trump, as we saw, is blaming this on the democrats. kellyanne conway on another network saying that nobody likes this policy. they are acting as though they are hands off with this. in may of this year, jeff sessions said, if you are smuggling a child, then we will prosecute you and that child will be separated as required by law. if you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border. there's a lack of empathy across the board as it relates to immigrants. obviously, that was a part of donald trump's campaign yesterday was i think the three-year anniversary of that campaign. it's been a fixture of his political doctrine since the beginning of his political career. i don't think that the reason why this is such a big story this week is because of advocacy. i think it's because of dogged reporting on the ground reporting. i think it's because people are questioning -- reporters are questioning this white house and following up and making them answer for their lies. >> this gets to the divide in the country as well. there are journalists talking about this being disgraceful. there are commentators bringing up the n word, nazi. doesn't the tone of some of the coverage offend a great deal of americans who feel the real scandal is that people are entering the country illegally in the first place? >> i think there's no bigger issue that there's a divide within the american public about than immigration. there's a reason why congress hasn't done anything on immigration in years and years. it's because we can't reach consensus. i can tell you, having worked in congress as a staffer for a long time, we haven't been a to get there because even within the republican conference, there's not agreement, which is what we are seeing play out this week. we will see play out next week as well. then you add to the story real -- the real humanity of parents being separated from ch drive emotions. it's not just driving democrats to tabout this. our colleague has been not just dogged but fierce in her condemnation of this policy. as somebody who is pro-life, i know you can't be pro-separating parents and children. this is a very real story. there's a reason it's being covered. >> that's a good point that it's not just democrats versus republicans. there have been prominent religious leaders speaking out against this. i grew up in membthodist church. i was struck by how fierce their statement was against this. it's not just black and red or red versus blue. >> it boils down to basic humanity. what do we stand for as a nation? >> this brings us to your outburst at thursday's briefing. >> what was that? >> here is part what have happened there. >> come on, you are a parent. don't you have any empathy for what these people are going through? >> settle down. >> seriously. >> i'm not going to have you yell out of turn. >> do you regret losing your cool? >> i have an apology to make. i apologize to every human being who has had to suffer, who have less -- who has less than i do. and i did not come to the table sooner. i'm sorry to those people for waiting so long and holding my temper. i am sorry that i am extremely angry with this administration that has lied to me, continues to lie to me. i'm sorry as a reporter that for so l i thought that the idea was to -- i was struggling to do my job, i forgot my job is to comfort t afflicted, afflict the comfortable and ask questions for those who have no voice. >> i respect what you are saying. you came across as a caricature for many of the people that are watching who feel journalists are trying to make it about themselves, get on tv, trying to get more attention. >> that's the pushback from the administration, of course. as i said, it's not about that. >> you don't think that's legitimate? >> i don't. it's not legitimate. we have been playing by the old rules for so long that we forgot where we are with this administration. for fact, it was sarah huckabee sanders who brought her family into the press room. she beat us over the head with it. we have been berated, lied to, insults. we have been told we have less credibility than the president of the united states. we have been lectured at. that office used to be an office of information. it is now an office of disinformation. it's an office of propaganda. we should push back harder. i have heard from numerous -- i think the vast majority of americans are as inflamed by this issue than any other. it's a basic question of humanity. it must be addressed. >> as you know, you became -- let's look at what some of the reactions were. this was, of course, reactions on fox news. they were not fans of your behavior. >> these people don't belong there. they start to rip press passes away. if you act like a wild animal, you don't belong there. >> sarah sanders is not a baby-sitter. we have individuals acting liked to toddlers. >> i was waiting for him to throw a shoe. i don't think he wears them. he is the press club hobo. >> throw him the heck ou get limb out of there. there's no reason to put up with it. >> your reaction? >> i do wear shoes, even though i am from kentucky. honestly, i've been called worse. i have a thick hide. i'm there for a reason. i'm there to ask questions and to seek answers. >> there is -- >> that was a very simple and actually softball question. do you have any empathy for what's -- >> she could have said, yes, i do. she was reacting to you inter t interrupting you. i think that's why she refused to answer. >> she refuses to answer any question she feels uncomfortable with. there have been people who interrupted her, including jim acosta, april ryan, jonathan carl, those questions she doesn't like to answer because they put her in a position of having to answer honestly. that's something that this administration is not prepared to do. i will remind you -- >> let's go to the broader point that those fox hosts were talking about. the reason it concerned me was talking about pulling credentials, denying access. doug, you were the communication director for the republican national committee. was there talk about this? is this a new phenomenon to say, kick him out? >> i will remind you, that -- >> doug, let me get -- >> i would say it's a bit of both. what we used to do at the rnc, we would put people from time to time, if they were reporting really awful, misleading stories, we would put them on the disabled list. a week or 30 days if it was really egregious. that didn't mean they would lose their access to the capitol.the questions. some of their access would be limited to us. we wouldn't necessarily respond this them as quickly as to others. at the same time, we had our jobs to do which was to get information out to all of these journalists so that we could tell our side of the story. when you are shutting down access, you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. you are not telling your story because it's not about the journalist. it's about their audience. when i have gone on other networks, friends of mine who are conservatives say why would you talk to rachel? it's not about rachel. it's about her audience. we forget that. it's not what you say. it's what people hear. >> let's take a -- >> we are the conduit through which the information flows. >> let's take a break. stick around. more to discuss after a commercial, including a big question that newsrooms are appling with. is the press unwittingly spreading president trump's lies? 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(♪) i'm a four-year-old ring bearer with a bad habit of swallowing stuff. still won't eat my broccoli, though. and if you don't have the right overage, you could be paying for that pricey love band yourself. so get an allstate agent, and be better protected from mayhem. like me. can a ring bearer get a snack around here? hello. let's go for a ride on a peloton. let's go grab a couple thousand friends and chase each other up a hill. let's go make a personal best, then beat it with your personal better than best. let's go bring the world's best instructors right to you. better yet, let's go bring the entire new york studio - live. let's go anytime, anywhere, with anyone who's willing. and let's go do it all right here. ready to go? peloton. journalists usually prize access to politicians. what good is access when the person is lying to you? you know who i'm talking about. president trump was accessible all week. lots of access. he held his first real solo formal press conference in 15 months. he gave interviews to abc and "voice of america." he kept it up on friday. then he took questions from the press corps. it's little wonder why he went outside. just look at what happened at the end of the week. new york state sued the president and his foundation, alleging numerous crimes. cable newscasts were full of speculation about michael cohen possibly flipping on trump. and there was a hearing in the mon manafort case and now he is off to jail. trump talked and talked trying to wrestle control of the narrative. new outlets turned out fact check after fact check. it's a vicious cycle. he says something bogus. we correct him. he objects to the coverage. he said something else bogus and so on and so on. it leads us to tweets that are absolutely disturbing. i know it feels like this happened months ago. it has to be scrutinized. the president saying that america's biggest enemy is fake news. singling out nbc and this network. that's extreme rhetoric. it's another dose of his poison. no matter what, his media allies always have his back. before the singapore summit, they were saying journalists were acting unamerican. >> why is the media practically rooting for our president to fail? >> they want the president to fail. >> rooting for him to fail. >> they simply want him to be hurt. they want the nation now to be hurt. >> the panel is back with me now. doug, olivia and brian. i wanted to start on the tweet about the press, parts of the press, cnn and other parts of the press being the country's biggest enemy. those words are disturbing. how was it received in the press corps? is he oblivious to what made america great for 200-plus years? >> yes, certainly. we know that by now. i think that in the press corps, in america when he is on -- when he is on white house lawn saying these things, i think it sort of met with a shrug. the backdrop of the international stages last week i think kind of brought into sharp relief what the stakes are. to see north korea's leader standing with someone who just called the american press corps, the free press, the biggest -- our country's biggest enemy, it was a reminder it's not just a silly thing that our president does sometimes, like the drunk uncle character from snl. i think it's easy to get trump fatigue, as we talked about on this show many times before. i think the different setting -- it creates this jucxtaposition which was high. >> what was your impression of the singapore coverage given the president still this morning on twitter is complaining he is not being given a fair shake? >> i thought it was beneficial for kim jong-un as well. it was wall to wall coverage. donald trump as he always does, dominated all political coverage. here is the thing. donald trump, one of the main reasons he was elected was he doesn't care about the rules. he sets an agenda in a way obama or bush or clinton or anybody else doesn't. the press covers him as if he were every other president. when i talk to folks outside of the washington bubble and they hear about these fact checks and the 22 lies in trump's latest press conference, they disregard it. the media doesn't have any credibility with them. having worked with politifact -- >> do we not cover what he said? >> hold him responsible. >> doug is saying that makes it worse. >> it's different. it's hoellding him at his level. you cannot take a bully and allow him to bully you. we cannot do -- the idea of being factual and stoic is not working. why it doesn't work is because the people he appeals to -- >> i disagree. the press conference on friday was a really, really good example of how this does work. you saw reporters -- >> that's great. >> in real time. you saw them following up. he was telling reporters to be quiet. he couldn't seem to understand why nobody else was agreeing with him about kim jong-un, for instance. >> but let's -- >> the bottom -- >> let's get doug to address this. what is the -- >> we don't have very much maan opportunities for that. it's because of the approximapr away -- >> that's why he doesn't do it very much. that's why he controlled it. that's why there's a frustration level. >> when there's a lack of credibility for the four of us speaking, what's the alternative? >> let's say jim acosta asked a question of sarah sanders and doesn't get an answer. say hypothetically, because that doesn't happen. they let them off the mat. then they have won that. the other example is because donald trump tweets something, doesn't mean it needs to dominate coverage all day. when donald trump tweets something, he says i'm going to change the agenda. these are not the droids you are looking for. keep looking for the droids. it's simple. >> bottom line is, we do need to do a better job in the white house briefing room of following up on each other without a doubt. the press is not a uniform lump clay. there are competing interests. there are many issues to cover on any given day. they play that to their advantage by making the press briefings short in duration. very few and far between. the access to the president is limited. >> does press secretary sarah sanders have any credibility left? >> no. no. there's no credibility left in that white house press briefing room. what you said about -- they have to pick an enemy. what you saw about wanting the president to fail, that speaks -- that's the umbrella issue that spoke to me in the last segment directly. they would rather make us the enemy and make the story about us. they are making the story about the press. they are making the story about jim acosta. they are making the story about april ryan. >> we saw a preview of that when they said acosta's credentials should be revoked. >> the campaign did this in 2016. they revoked my press credentials. they revoked my publication's press credentials, for various publicatio. that did not result in no covege, of course. we still covered the campaign fairly and critically. it made things more difficult logistically. i think he would saw with the north korean summit in particular the importance of the press being given access to these type of things. the photos that came out from the media were not the same coming out from the government. i would say to the point about the press following up on each other's questions, unfortunately, the press is not this organized group. it's not as though there's a smoke-filled room where everybody hangs out and says, we're going to ask sarah about the child immigration policy today. unfortunately, as brian said, there are competing interest and there's a lot of news to get to. they have condensed the briefings to the point where they are so short -- >> they are pointless. >> i wouldn't say they are pointless. there's great value to hearing what administration officials have to say on the record, even if we learn later or we know in real time that they are not telling the truth. >> i will concede that. >> let's move to the broader issue about lying and deception. it's not just in the briefing room. it was happening in the scrum of reporters on friday. i have been thinking about the role of fact checking and whether we are unwittingly helping to spread misinformation that's coming from the white house. i spoke with trump critic george lakeoff about this. listen to what he said. >> one of the things that journalists are trying to do is to repeat and quote what public figures say. when the public figures are distorting, lying and trying to reframe things in false ways, what the journalists are doing is helping them. you are helping to get them out there. not only that, if they deny it, if they go out and quote his words and say this isn't true, what they have done is quoting his words. when nixon said, i am not a crook, everyone thought of him as a crook. the point is that denying a frame activates the frame. >> we can take this example and play it out through trump's tweet about the press being the biggest enemy. if we put it in a banner that says trump says the media is the biggest enemy, that's damaging according to him. let's try a different banner. we say, trump criticized for biggest enemy comment. he would say that banner is not good enough because we're still identifying the lie. let's put up a better banner. why is trump lashing out at the press again? this is a real time example of how newsrooms or in this case cable news networks have to think about how we're reporting the president's words. brian? >> it's a double-edged sword. if you -- first of all, his tweets have been determined to be policy. you have to in some regard report them. number two, not reporting them leads to the argument that we're the fake press and we don't -- we only report stuff that's unfavorable to the president. you are a damned if you do, damned if you don't. getting information out to the public is essential. whether or not we like or agree with that information, yeah, s e ripple affect in the pond. hopefully, the electorate is informed enough and is educated enough and cared enough about the issues to understand and differentiate between the falsehoods and truth. it's our job to pass information. to go after us -- >> let me be clear. he says it's not working. he says what you are describing is a failure. >> brian, recent history says that is not working. i don't think you can look at the -- >> you are not -- i hope you are not looking for a disagreement from me. >> i was talking to the other brian. i just think that -- i think we should be trying to get better at this. improve how we frame these things. i saw there was an argument between jonathan kapar and a reporter at "the new york times" because jonathan tweeted what the president said, which was an obvious falsehood. it sprung up this debate about whether or not he was perpet e perpetuating the lie. >> so -- >> i think we need to try to prove all the time on that. now is as good as time as ever. >> start with the truth. then describe briefly what the lie was. then get back to the truth. i told him, it's like a truth sandwich. that might be the best possible answer to this, if we can frame -- >> who is meshamerica's enemy? >> that's a great point. >> truth is subjective. facts are not. truth is subjective. facts are not. we have to get back to the facts. we have to trust the american people. you are going to have voices on the right and the left. right now, what we should be doing is asking very basic questions. >> we are every day. >> doug, last word to you. >> yes, you have to cover what the president says because he's the president. you don't have to cover it exhaustively. we don't need to talk about it for 24 hours. when we do, trump wins. you play into his hands every day. >> amen. >> thank you all for being here. >> happy father's day. >> happy father's day. >> happy father's day. >> thank you very much. he wanted to reshape the news industry, but an article says it was a bluff. rob reiner, he joins me to discuss why he thinks conservative media coverage of the president is essentially state run. that's right after this. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your retail business. so that if your customer needs shoes, & he's got wide feet. & with edge-to-edge intelligence you've got near real time inventory updates. & he'll find the same shoes in your store that he found online he'll be one happy, very forgetful wide footed customer. at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & if your customer also forgets socks! & you could send him a coupon for that item. you might be missing something.y healthy. your eyes. that's why there's ocuvite. ocuvite helps replenish nutrients your eyes can lose as you age. it has lutein, zeaxanthin and omega-3. ocuvite. be good to your eyes. money managers are pretty much the same. all but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. i'm a small business, but i have... big dreams... and big plans. so how do i make the efforts of 8 employees... feel like 50? how can i share new plans virtually? how can i download an e-file? virtual tours? zip-file? really big files? in seconds, not minutes... just like that. like everything... the answer is simple. i'll do what i've always done... dream more, dream faster, and above all... now, i'll dream gig. now more businesses, in more places, can afford to dream gig. comcast, building america's largest gig-speed network. fox news better watch out. or something like that. president trump doesn't think that the network is praising him enough. according to "the washington pos post", while trump was in singapore, he watched north korean state-run tv and he joked with some of his aides that the female north korean anchor was so positive for kim jong-un. it's an interesting bit of reporting from the post, given fox's pro-trump talk shows. this topic came up when i sat down with director rob reiner. his latest film "shock and awe" is about journalists who questioned george w. bush's wmd claims in 2003. he is fired up about trump these days. he called fox and breitbart's commentaries state-run media that prop up the president. >> it's more difficult now than it has ever been. first, to hold people in power accountable, to risk access and all of that, but also you have a big chunk of mainstream media that is feeding the base of donald trump. and they are only getting information in one way. it's much easier to say, fake news, witch hunt, no collusion and repeat that over and over than to explain to people what actually happened, how the democracy was attacked, what th campaign are. were there any obstructions of justice? these are things that are very complicated to explain. but in order for our democracy to survive, we have to explain it. and we have to be vigilant. >> you say the pro-trump media tells a simple story. no collusion and the media is out to get him. what is the simple story you should be telling? what should trump critics be saying to counter that? >> what they should be saying is -- by the way, i think we're in a place right now where it's almost impossible to reach those people. they are set in cement in a way. they keep getting reinforced. but that doesn't mean that the mainstream media who reaches the other 60% or 65%, whatever that number is, shouldn't keep at explaining to those people what the truth is. >> what's going on. >> at some point -- at some point -- right now you don't see republicans in congress willing to step up and say anything. you see people like jeff flake and even now tray gowdy. but they're on their way out. you don't see anybody in congress and wants to stay in congress saying anything of any real value in terms of the truth. at some point, if the press does their job and if that drumbeat stays there, eventually we will see little cracks that bust up through the cement. it can happen. >> hold on. aren't you just as set in your ways, your views, set in cement as the trump supporters you are critiquing? >> no. what i have discovered in this effort to try to get the truth out about this invasion of our country by the russians is i have gotten really close with some good republican friends. principled, thoughtful republicans like david fromm. i talk to them. we may disagree. we do disagree on policy issues. but the one thing we agree on is loving this country and standing up for democracy and the rule of law. that we can exchange ideas. to me, we will not have a healthy democracy until we was a healthy, strong republican party and democratic party. >> you know what happens every time you give tv interviews? conservative websites write all about you. >> libtards. >> do you like that? >> you know, i don't even follow any of that stuff. they are going to -- god bless them. as we are talking, they hate my guts. i lost half my audience because of that. that's fine. >> is that what they say? >> i'm sure. half the people hate my guts. they don't want to watch what i have to say or the movies i make that talk about any of this. i'm at this point in my life where i just have to speak out. i have to say what i believe. i don't -- i know what's true. we know propaganda works. every single administration, republican, democrat, all traffic in propaganda either to sell policy or to sell a rational to go to war. the difference is, we got a president now who is backed up by essentially state-run immediamedia with fox and breitbart and alex jones. >> not literally state-run. >> i said essentially. which is supportive. they got people like shepard smith who is not running the company line. essentially. that's a big, big difference. i spent a lot of time talking to intelligence experts who tell me it's not so much spreading the lie and getting to believe the lie, it's getting them to be confused. to throw up a lot of smoke and get them to be confused. >> that's happening. >> yes. t don't worry. daddy will take care of you. what does it mean to own the news? 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i ask because as of this week, at&t owns cnn. it's a first of its kind marriage. they own hbo, warner brothers, tbs, it's a deal that's been 20 months in the making and a deal opposed by candidate donald trump when it was announced. >> at&t is buying time warner and thus cnn, a deal we will not approve in my administration because it's too much concentration of power in the hands of too few. >> now fast forward a year. as you know, trump's justice department sued to block the deal on antitrust grounds. at&t suspected trump was playing politics. time warner thought he was trying to penalize cnn. the government denied that. now f forward to tuesday. the judge shredded the government's case handing at&t a decisive win. time warner said the suit was baseless to begin with. now, as of thursday, the deal is finally done. time warner is being renape ere warner media. i had questions about cnn and he had editorial independence. delivering the news is different from delivering phone calls. news divisions have a special place in people's lives. in this bitterly divided world, people need information and context. that means newsrooms need investment and support. reporters in those newsrooms need to trust that their employers have their back, whether in a war zone or a court of law or now even in a press conference. at the same time, viewers need to trust the parent company is not interfering in the coverage, the company is supporting the newsroom without second guessing. it's easy to lose trust when it se seems like the parent company is meddling. look no further than pittsburgh where community leaders are outraged by the firing of cartoonist rob rogers. >> fired for being anti-trump. rob rogers, the political cartoonist for the pittsburgh post gazette was fired. he had been on the job for a quarter century. his editor turned down 19 of his political cartoons since march. >> they were trying to tamp down the voice that i was having about being critical of trump. >> the paper and its ownership is under scrutiny. the same is true out west in denver where the hedge fund in control of the dinner post has been cutting staff while reaping big profits. the newsroom rose up in protest this year. today there is breaking news. eight formerers are launching a new website. competition. criticism. accountability. owning a news outlet, sometimes means there are protests outside your office. it also means providing a valuable public service. do the a bosses know they are buying? they say they do. on friday, he gave his first int interview. when we asked about cnn he said, it is not lost on me that this particular part of the business is unique and different than every other part of the business. it has a special social responsibility. thus, he said, he has a new responsibility. he said he doesn't see cnn's leadership or editorial processes changing. cnn president jeff zucker will remain in charge. stankey said the only way democracy functioning well is with a well-informed and educated electorate. he says he sees his role as getting it in front of more people. those are welcome words to staffers here. on the business side, the are opportunities for new mobile products, more customizable websites. on the editorial side, well, staffers just want to be sure the new bosses can withstand the heat, they can shrug off an advertiser's complaints or a president's attacks. that's the challenge for at&t. that's what it means to own the news. a quick note here. stan stankey will join us tomorrow morning. we will talk about him about the new job. up next, another angle about the media business. it's about vice. vice media. shane smith has enjoyed unmatched hype but a new article says the bubble is bursting. the author of the piece joins me next. since my stroke, he hasn't left my side. with the right steps, 80% of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevent. a bayer aspirin regimen is one step to help prevent another stroke. so, i'm doing all i can to stay in his life. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. at&t provides edge-to-edge intelligence, covering virtually every part of your manufacturing business. & so this won't happen. because you've made sure this sensor and this machine are integrated. & she can talk to him, & yes... atta, boy. some people assign genders to machines. and yocan be sure you won't have any problems. except for the daily theft of your danish. not cool! at&t provides edge to edge intelligence. it can do so much for your business, the list goes on and on. that's the power of &. & this shipment will be delivered... ♪ rawwggwwrughh! well, i told you they wouldn't have it. rawwggwwrughh! it's ok, it's ok. we've got time. ♪ [impact collision] rawwggwwrughh! [impact collision] ...ughhhh! what!!! seeing your real-life millennium falcon get damaged . filing your insurance claim shouldn't be. esurance makes it easy. so you can get on to your next adventure. oh, we gotta pick up my mom. ...ughhhh! ♪ esurance. see solo: a star wars story now playing. this is no ordinary coffee. it's single-origin kenyan coffee from the nyeri highlands, 6,000 feet above sea level. but how do you really know that the beans journeyed to the port of mombasa and across the pacific? that you can trust they're 100% authentic? ibm blockchain. a smart way to track every step, ensuring this coffee did indeed come from 6,000 feet above sea level. and not a foot lower. ♪ ♪ at the marine mammal center, the environment is everything. we want to do our very best for each and every animal, and we want to operate a sustainable facility. and pg&e has been a partner helping us to achieve that. we've helped the marine mammal center go solar, install electric vehicle charging stations, and become more energy efficient. pg&e has allowed us to be the most sustainable organization we can be. any time you help a customer, it's a really good feeling. it's especially so when it's a customer that's doing such good and important work for the environment. together, we're building a better california. now a digital media reality check. vice media thought it was cooler than everybody else. they got lots of major media companies to invest in the dream it was selling. but now reality has intruded. the company missed its profit targets last year, and now a new ceo is taking over. all of that is subject of this new story in "new york" magazine titled "vice was built on a bluff." i spoke about the real vice. reaves, vice gets lots and lots of good press but your article is a reality check about one of the best-known brands in media. what did you find that's been overlooked by others when it comes to "vice?" >> i think, you know, "vice" was a brand, a magazine for a while that was kind of built on cool. and at this moment that it became cool, a lot of other big media organizations and investors sort of thought, you know, maybe this is something we can scale into something much bigger. maybe you can scale coolintoa big multinational global media organization. there's a company kind of built on hype for a long time, and i think more recently, they have discovered they kind of have to deal with a lot of the realities that many other media organizations are dealing with. >> how much of this has to do with shane smith, the company's co founder, a larger than life presence, who really promised the world, but then a couple months ago surprised everybody by stepping down as ceo? >> yeah. i think shane gets the -- certainly the bulk of the credit. he's by all accounts a remarkable pitchman, a remarkable salesman. and, you know, a lot of credit tirks will give him credit. disney a & e offered "vice" a cable channel. is shane smith supposed to say no to that? >> i thought it was interesting, there was a comparison between shane myth and donald trump, both love to major huge promises and big deals. tell me about that comparison. >> i think someone tells told me that "vice" was the media equivalent of putting gold lettering on crumby condos which i think was a little too critical of it. but shane is -- has been out there kind of selling something, and i think to a certain degree, he believes it. like, and there's in some way in which "vice" has produced great things and has fulfilled what it has set out to do in certain ways, but ultimately you have to kind of deliver on the promises that you make. and it has to be more than just a story you're telling. >> so i guess the point is, selling this hard partying, edgy brand, getting advertisers to come on board, helping advertisers reach young people, all that works for a while, and to some extent you can create great journalism on the back of that ad agency, but there are limits to the growth and "vice" is experiencing those limits. >> they're definitely experiencing the limits, and i think that sales pitch doesn't work any more. you know, for one thing, shane himself is in his late 40s, he doesn't necessarily want to go out and party with marketing executives any more, and that's not the pitch. the pitch is not where the cool, edgy brand. we're the brand that is speaking to the woke generation. we are -- you know, they're now claiming a much broader audience, and so it's going to be a tricky sort of path for them to go down of maintaining that while also, you know, trying to expand. >> vice media's view says they feel reaves' story is about the past. nancy de duke took charge to turn things around. cnn decided to broadcast the last two episodes of "parts unknown" featuring anthony bourdain. the first is tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern time here on cnn. we'll see you back here this time next week for more "reliable sources." at some point, we are going to be able to beat als. because life is amazing. so i am hoping f i want this, to uh, to be a reality. um, yeah. remember sleep before smart phones? 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