so many reasons so spend so little time but nothing justifies spending more than cranking of fear more, the fear of more boston, morehemicals and more long airport waits. now is not the time to quibble over costs. we never really have. they never have, now it looks more like they never will. because big spending politician say that world has changed they need more change, our change, our money doesn't anyone see what is going on here? i'm not the sharpest tool in the shed, they are not looking after, that they are screwing us, inc under the phony guys guf keeping us safe and happy. only to keep them fat and happy. melissa, there you go. they got all ammo they need. >> faa is one that kills me, if you look at their own web site, they are doing 26% less work than they were in 2002. that is how many fewer flights there are in the sky. every year since then, they have added more people and increased their budget with less work to do, more people, so, they rush in they say, there are long lines, the truth is, if you look at statistics, these days are not worse than they usually or this time of year, but they are upsetting people, showing the photos saying we have to put money back in act to help you , it just costing us. lou: my predict for weekend, we'll lift the furloughs, that is what we're being with, when we too minor cuts, 85-86 billion-dollars we were talking about in sequestration cuts that were just over 10 years half of which in outer years, end of story game over dealing with deb >> rht. you know, being in boston over last few weeks, i a are of role that fear plays in decision making when we counsel investors we tell them, down panic have a plan, be opportunistic this this case washington is doing none of, that washington is letting fear dictate the plan, we can't control what goes on in europe or a recession or china has a housing bubble. but we can control our own budget, that is something that washington chooses not to do, i think sequestration, fears and faa fears is a classive example of fear mongering run amuck. and you know it is unfortunate we'll going to pay for this for years to come. lou: and we have discussed this before. republicans and democrats, if you want to spend on wars in afghanistan and iraq. then just put it on budget, don't make it an off budget item. we know that wars are expensive. you cannot play the shell gam you say added security a big interest, from where do you take funds, we don't do that. >> right. >> right. and optics of f faa it looks ga. in summer the debt ceiling will have to be raised, some members, fiscally conservative, are wondering, when it is that going to stop? is there an end pnt, at some point there has to be a grand bargain, but what does it take for congress? we have not seen it despite the warningignals from greece and other countries. countries. lou: melissa i think of privacy advocates, about hey, we got google looking at and cameras, not a peep out of them now in the post boston worl world. i know where it is going. >> your guest said they are not being opportunistic they are. a grade opportunity for government to rack up more debt. they can find a reason to spend money. i don't know why the rest of the american public does not see it their money. neil: they see it is their airline, and their hineys waiting a long time. so they are afraid, that it boomrages on them. >> this idea of personal responsibility, you know that the blame game is just beginning, we see politicians, we have a sluggish economy. whether gdp or consumer reaction, and you know you can mark my word, we'll see people blaming this terror crises on the fact that economy is not growing, they will look for excuses to blame someone, and result of those excuses will be more stimulus dollars, we see here is washington right now, contributing to being part of the problem. budgets will be stretched because of police present that means higher taxes, net result is going to be counter productive for the economy. neil: a very brief moment, my fear with this. there were a couple politicians who had cajonies to say, sequestration. not a single law enforcement officials job on the line, that happens i understand. that it is politics as well as reality. now, been ratcheted up. to melissa's point we'll see more, what do you think? >> i think so in washington one thing that moves congress, they get rattled by credit rating anxieties, we were downgrades that had an effect but they have done quiet. washington is continuing to spend. neil: you know they were not iet about britain, but what do you think is going to happen with this melissa, assuming think about that budget asterty is out. >> it seems like we're going to come to some crisis here where we'll raise the debt ceiling you have to think that rating agents will downgrade again, i don't know if that causes pond vigilant to get into action, as long as money is rolling freely, i don't know if anyone cares, i don't know that it makes that big of a difference. neil: some vig lannies like it. >> yeah, i can'tell any more, we keep expecting it interest situation to turn, and again the government, and it is not. >> thank you all very much. this is a also, a week something else happened, based on something that never happened, a false tweet that for few minutes had investors in deep you know, tweet. this was just latest higtech head fake to recover, wait until you hear from folks who say it will not be the last, maybe next time we don't recover. bny mellon combines investment management & investment servicing, giving us unique insights which help us attract the industry's brightest minds who create powerful strategies for a country's investments which are used to build new schools to build more bright minds. invested in the world. bny mellon. at whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery records and a low claims ratio, we do atever it takes to make your business our business. od. helping the world keep promises. hey everybody, hi mom... streaming live with a tour of my new place... knowing you can still reach out. ... and now you've seen it. that's powerful. verizon. get mom a lucid 2 by lg for free. neil: this to me is really the chart of the week. a fall app tweet that -- a false ap tweet that the white house was attacked. but before dust settled the markets got unsettled, stocks tanking triple digits they recovered, like they do. but is it me, do you think we're running out of rope? maybe excuses to lizzy cdonald, and adam and high-tech can seem like high wire. >> numbers are frightening $146 billion wiped out in market cap, the problem is twitter feeds are part of computer trading platform for a lot of hedge funds that use high frequeuency trade, the fact thaa bogus twitter feed can go into a computer, and sng markets so dramatically is scary, important names we invest in or have in 401(k) got hit, walmart, home depot, coke, you know, 136 companies plus were hit. so the question is, how to you stop it? is this an event -- coming out of our 401(k) is this status quo going forward. neil: if you are an individual investor adam just back away. as some creep back they see this, and say this is why i don't go in because this stuff happens. i know there are fancy algorithms that allow this to happen, sophisticated program said on a combination of words, and they pound on them. i understand that, i don't but i do. but, average folks say, what the heck, get me out of here. >> well, i actually think that this should give comfort to average folks, average folks should not pay attention to any of this nonsense, they should not be trading they should not pick stocks. >> why? >> they would not have been damaged if they were unaware. their mutual fun ended the day where it started. neil: you are tipping hat to market recovered they realized this is stupid, one of these days it won't happen. >> the high peak frequency tradg problem has to be looked at t my point that market gets back to where it should have been, individual investors are best served by not paying attention to nonsense, if you do, saying maybe i should not be in the market because this stuff happens you will lose out on an opportunity to earn real money. neil: jean, i am old enough to remember the '87 crash. that got the investor royally reamed, so what is this to top me from thinking -- what is to stop me from thinking you know savings account. >> keep in mind, a run a technology consuming firm, sometimes too much technology is not a good thing. >> agree but i tell you it guess boion stock market. that is has a lot of press because of money lost in a few seconds on wall street, in last 6 months some largest companying that run hosting services, google, and microsoft, and amazon, there are hundreds of people, and businesses that rely on the services because all about cloud computing and relying on service that are o there. these people, when their service go down they lose lone as well, not just a wall street issue but an issue of over reliance on some technology. >> adam makes an important point. some issuers could not get back in. like wall street has the memory of a goldfish, the other trend, saying to company you can disclose market moving information on youtube and twitter. neil: how many characters, 140 or less what would you write? >> they always go to the fcc web site. >> that is where you go. >> i am geeke i can't hely i ca. neil: you are sophisticated. i read a prompter for a living. average people looking at this say, this keeping happening, whether a flash crash. i had no idea we had a cocoa future crash. >> i do not either. >> i am avoiding chocolate. neil: it is crazy, no wonder people get nervous, there is a reason you can over do this. >> i would say to reassure people, at the micro level we have to address the problems we are. at macro level, people need to remind them sel themselveses ths progress. neil: this not progress. >> but it neil: thank you to our government -- you still have waste. >> we can do things with it thintechnology that we could noo before we can get information faster. neil: come on, it is the making of our undoing. >> neil, that is an over statement, neil 92 . neil: i think it is too, but dramatic affect. >> i don't think it is the making of our own undoing, as a consumer you are running a be we rely on technology, not just stark it. it is g mail, and hosting services and microsoft outlook, wonderful services but they go down, when they go down we have to be prepared, they are not perfect. we live in an imperfect world. neil: we had hurricane sandy, my sons their biggest problem with power going out was not playing with their, pad, w ipad, i saidl have to do something revolutionary, boys talk. >> twinkies are thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. wee not simply saluting history... we're making it. neil: the ding dongs are back, but guess who is not? the union makers who used to make them. the new bosses are giving the heave-ho on the bakers, twinkies and ding dongs are back. >> some of my favorite foods. fact that they are nonunion what does that tell you? >> a lot about union history, looking at unions today, down in private sector to less than 7% of employees are union members, if you turn the clock back 70 years ago almost 20% of the country were working people were members of unions, unions have lost their credibility with workers, but more so, what this tells new case of hostess that given a choice, people who run corporations in the u.s. today, would much rather not have a union. why is that? neil: that has been the case a long time. >> unions create great inefficiencies we find from unions today they embed costs into businesses, this is what happened with old hostess. jobs were segmented in such a way that more people had to be hired to get very simple tasks done. no surprise to me, that new management condition have a union -- can't have a union. neil: management changed a lot too, so i'm not sure new management and this management. is the cure. but i do know they went through a lot of management. i am not here to sing praises of management or disparage unions as i am sayin there has to be something in the mix to the baking analogy, it happens every where, boeing went to a right-to-work state to add jobs, same in lexus considering it. they seek out the right-to-work states, for a reason. >> of course, they do. by the way, i did the same thing, if there is no need to be buburdens with a union, why do . neil: to give workers a fair break and air pay. >>, oh, no. neil: hear me. i am doing my fair and planned thing, they would or argue that management would rather stick workers to the wall, you say -- >> in is not late 1800s or early 1900s, when an. neil: there are still twinkies made from late 1800s on storeshelves today but i digress. >> i understand. unions provide no real purpose today. because employees have fair salaries, they have good medical, dental, benefits, they are treated very well. manager have learned that employees are productive if they are treated well. this -- there is though need for a third party to step in between a grievance between a manager and an employee. >> there is a growing kassem they mention, that there will always be a home for unions with that crowd, and a group pushing for that crowd. >> i think there is a place for unions, it happens to be in public sector, unions are still strong. neil: you are not supporting that? i find that weird, it is going to sue us, folks who pay them if they don't get what they want. >> i'm not support anything unions anywhere. i want to be clear on that. but what happens in the public sector is something that we com3 to expect, that is unions give to politicians and fact of the manufacturematter is politiciant unions by creating jobs giving so unions what they want. neil: thank you my friend. former verizon wireless ceo, twinkies do not have a shelf life of 150 years, it 100 years. kidding. anyway you might still be waiting for your refund, millions of others got rebunds and they were not even neil: i will spare you details, let the headline sink in. more than 11 billion in erroneous refunds last year. we don't have the numbers but i particular treasury inspector general is with us. >> thank you, neil. ne: what is the rate for irs? >> you are conservative with that number. irs itself estimat between $11 and $14 billion a year, which equates to error rate of 21 on 25%. neil: more than double error rate than president obama when he pushed federal standard into law aims for. >> this is a longstanding problem. every since establishment of this worth wild program congress identified problem with people who are not eligible for credit receiving it this is one of membership credits and other benefits that the irs administers that are subject to fraud, and other misuse. neil: how does it happen? i think you told me, the bigger the numbers get the more ripe you are for this stuff happening, but no other reason than math. if you stick to same percentage that number gets bigger, it really big now. >> it really is. and unfortunately, it is not only growing in this particular area, but with the expanding role that irs plays throughout government, we expect other schemes to grow with those expanding roles. neil: but not just irs, right, the fact is, from tarp funds, going beyond what intended, for bailout for bailouts and mort gang reworks that -- mortgage reworks that had to be reworked, something is wrong with the fix. >> throughout government, it is estimated that over $100 billion per year is improperly paid, both in terms of contracts, as well as grants, in addition to tax creditse're refearing to today. neil: you say improperly paid i'm hoping that is discovered whoever was improperly paid has to ggve that money back. >> you know, it to its credit irs has identified over 4 billion each year, which this not have been paid, and they catch. they prevent from being paid. however, it literally takes an audit of i'v resiveient to mak -- recipient to make that determinic they have to pick and choose their priorities. neil: where are we going with it? you kn this happens with irs now, other agents before. you know i understand human error, and low percentage thing. i don't excuse 21% in irs case. it should be 0% going out in this way, but we put more money into fix it programs, for which we true the day. what do we do? >> you know we have a voluntary compliance system in this nation. this is something that if the irs literally had an authoritative system of everything that you earn, is reported to it, therefore they can can colgate amount of taxly -- they can capita call calcul littley. it would take a change in way that irs administers the tax code to fully tracy the problem. neil: you know, i was thinking of you coming here today of, i'm thinking i had a guy who worked with me, a wonderful person but always apologizes for mistakes, very good about owning up to them. i admire that part, but mistakes kept happening, so as sorry as he was i heard and saw the missticks. i understand this is happened again, and again, and again, but we keep repeating the same sin. are there standards put in place to avoid the same thing. we saw this with tarp, they wanted to police tarp funds again from going out getting laughter on squandered or check -- laughter on squandered or checks sense to pets, we would hear new variations. >> you know, that is neil, one of the big problem with this issue, because, congress passed legislation in 2010 that required irs to report the aim of improper payment its makes, irs has not been in compliance with that. the congress has to address. neil: all right, i tell you whatthank god for guys like thau are trying to deep on top of this. we appreciate it. >> thank you, neil. neil: all right, bill ariley, is samsung pulling an apple. saying you could be in the no sale zone. neil: samsung soaring, apple falling, ibm reprimanding, tonight. doing the blitz honors. keith if i fitzgerald. and same sung appears to play a dangerous familiar apple-like stunt, running out of a very hot phone just as it hits market. is it manufacturing its own crisis? >> hard to know what they are doing on that front, interesting phenomenon watching the samsung phones over take apple stuff. in this modern world we have. hard for cpany to hold on to crown, you can see other people's real experiencing of technology and how good it is. so what happens, you know, samsung can supersede apple. who toppled blackberry. >> you know there is something to be said, playing these games, if they are deliberate. there no a to prove that. >> look, you know if i were ceo of samsung i would top create as much buzz and hype for my crux as possible. you don't' to tick people off. >> it had a 4 on 5 year lead because it redefined a product category, samsung pulling a classive strategies of wait could observe, watch design and improve, their improvement are getting so fast. apple condition keep up. to issue 2, big blue ripping half million workers you tell ceo telling all to shape up or get out. they have to get their act together. well i think so, mandate is turn ibm around could problem is this time, am doubtful they will be able to do it, much of lower end business cannibalized servers going away, cloud computing working again it. >> dave, does that type of management approach where you put fear of you know what in your workers on that level work? >> i don't think it working often, i think it will hard for them in this situation, i they are on the wrong side of history, and not able to make the same kind of paradigm jump from mainframe world to pc world some 30 years ago this is a bigger badr trend, in which i think they are les revenue, and less money toe made. and what have you -- world's only 102-year-old computer company, trying ting to still py ball in, that they had a strong culture based on that previous era. this may be a bridge too far. >> well said. >> all right, issue three, company -- they are not interested in borrowing. first two weeks no less saying business has been borrowi 9% less, banks saying not us who is it? >> i think that banks have got a lot to bowith this, theyon top lend, now they have uncertainy nobody wants their money, whose fault is that this is uncertainty issue. so low they are laugh able. this is very disconcerting to me. >> i don't know if there is a reflect of companies that feel satiated already. or something more sinister afoot. >> there is somhing different afoot. why is there less revenue for ibm? some technology models are changing, you can buy so much more by -- m bief that we have entered an era where business is becoming less challenge intensive. and what you get is entrepreneurial company ceos saying, i wonder if there is a way could do this without investing my money, a cloud-based way or out sourced kind of way to make it happen, this is a different economy. >> i was thinking about how low rates are, a weird way. that reinforces the banky behavior. they are running with this bubble or whatever you top call it, enjoying every minute of it. >> they have so much cash on hand customers are almost irrelevant. they can get it from treasury when they want low risk in portfolio, borrowing to them is sort of an after thought at this point, but many of the businessesnese more cash then before, they have got to invest 3 this. that is only way they will keep middle in in. and upper america running. they have to hire, and invest now they are caught in middle. >> tha you so mh great job, guys we appreciate it. >> well long before these guys were asking for them, bill gates was calling for them, but gates was not interested in spying on terrorists he wanted to spy, still does, on teachers. neil: bill gates not kidding, pushing for plain for u.s. to spend dollars 5 million to put cameras in classrooms, the cameras are pointed at the teachers saying a watchful eye could teach them a lesson in teaching. this may go too far, he said this, if you think about it, before the whole boston thing, putting cameras everywhere. he is going bill gates, to try to monitor teachers, seeing whether they are livinup to their kids. what do you think of that? what is so bad about that. proof of getting paid for performance. >> you are right, accountability evaluation allowing teachers to be observed by parents great idea but you talk about 5 billion that money economy better spence elsewhere, but idea of observing teachers to see how effective they are and rewarding them is -- >> maybe then that would be a good investment unlike solyndra and unlike fisker. 5 billion in to this yields you tens of billions you know in better teachers, smarter students who make us more competitive nation. >> i see that, i love the daily news editorial on this a little tongue and cheek but said, why not just charge subscription. before you do primetime. y have to figure, jenny's little brother, i think he wanted to see if jenny got in troubmoral than 2 gotrouble mort votes. neil: after a while you get used to cameras, then you don't think about it. i know they are everywhere here, and iind of you know, understand that so there is a danger. but i understand where you are coming from. we're not in position to be grab granting or crediting for investing anything right now, we don't have any money right now. there is that asterisk to this. >> yeah not having a little money is a -- not having any money is a little problem. neil: so, where does bill gates go with this. the week we learn that you know it can look over your shoulder keeping you alive friend, which wins out? >> well, a mix. you know what giving better benefit. are you watching for terrorists on street corners. versus personal privacy, in classroom, that is what this comes down to. yeah you should be able to observe but price tag is a little bit high. so, it is a plan, a plan we'll have to figure out, but go i more on privacy in public but when our kids, i think parents should have ability to observe teachers, that is excessive for cameras or another format. neil: gates could afford that himself if he is hot to trot on it. >> i heard about this i thought high would pay for it, a nice donation. neil: that could help. have a great weekend. >> thank youking neil? all right, this just in, you have a one in 5 chance of winding up on food stamps, 1 in 5, w thank you orville and wilbur... ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions... in everything from the best experiences below... to the finest comforts above. we're not simply saluting history... we're making it. to fly home for the big family reion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet? man: ♪ all in together now ♪ we can make it better, can we do it? ♪ ♪ we'll rope up chorus: ♪ 'cause we know how to jump ♪ ♪ we'll cut it down ♪t announcer: moving a little and eating better every day can help make you and your child healthier. search "we can" to find out more. neil: food for thought, food stamps for illegals, that could explain 1 in 5 households on food stamps. we are closing in on 50 million americans not even americans, getting food stamps now. lizzy macdonald this is making me want to vomit right now. adam is back, and mark is back, my point is not that we take care of those who need to be fed. but if you tell me, 50 million americans are in need of food stamps, one out of 5, out of control. >> yes, it is astonishing. the thing that gets lost in the story line. is that americans really are generous they do want to help the poor, and don't think that can be questioned. but, it is such a reversal of what clinton was all about in 90s, democrats in 90s, and republicans too. that we got americans off of the dole, but president bush did expand food stamps in 2002, president obama as part of stimulus, food stamps started in 70s, if you are in financial destress, now it could be a meddle classe classen class-ent. neil: jean? >> you know, interesting story, you know i have three kids in college right now. they have friends on food stamps. neil: really? >> yes, they are going to good schools but i don't know if you know that with relaxing a of food stamp rule, if you are a kid in college working part time over 18, if you part of a work study program, you are eligible for food stamps these kids have family that could pay for meal plans but with rising costs of colleges parents look for every opportuny. neil: e your kids on food stamps. >> they are not, that would put the government out of,. neil: you know, adam, you get the blogs, a heartless fox guy talking about this. my issue is whole mitt romney 47% pay no income tax thing, mine is not to quibble with soldiers and retirees who pay a life into the system, they are due their comfort in their latter years, my point is how did that number get so high as 47%, just like my point here, how did it get high as almost 50illion who need food stamps, i don't know the correct number of needy americans who nd help to get food but it cannot possibly 50 million, or be close @% half who are in such distress they cannot and should not pay some federal income tax, something is out of whack. >> there are a couple sands here, we started by suggesting there are some element to doing with illegal imgarag imgration e 11 or 12 million illegal ill granimmigrant in u.s., i don't k it is a coincidence this rise in food stamp usage coincides with a historic rise in income inequality in united states, i don't know what the right way to feed hungry people is or what the right number should be. but that is what we should look at. wehould -- we should revamp this. neil: but we're not doing that, i agree. we focus more on providing benefits than push for the job that will make them irrelevant. >> that is a good point, you know, i tell you something looking at numbers almost 20 million more people on food stamps since 2008. so what does that tell you? a huge difference -- a swing. neil: post meltdown. >> yes, americans want to help yes, but you don't do it by saying to upper bracket, you know what, inequality is an issue so we're going to bring you down, you want to bring people up not down. >> as liz said, household income has dreases 7.95% since beginning of recession, and economy growing so slow, it makes sense there are more people he or shing out for help there -- people reaching out for help. neil: let's assume we' having a tough time on that 41, of abouts are running up and jobs are not. if we keep doing this we're going to run out of money. >> if there is always a abuse and waste in the program, we should look at them, but if there are -- if are more hungry people united states that is what we should talk about not is food stamps right approach. neil: you cannot tell me we're at point a system that more than a decade ago with 18 million, is now up to point where we're close to 50 million. how that -- things have turned that fast for that many. that you -- food stamps were for destitute. >> common sense suggestions that standards have been laxed. i do not argue there. my instinct to agree with you, yes. neil: that kills you doesn't it? >> not in the least. >> i want to thank you all, i know letter and e-mails are coming we're a rich and generous country, but we can only have so many paying out to so many more before you release, what the hell miles do you have? liz: not enough because i want to go to why. teeseven "money with melissa francis" with melissa francis is next. melissa: and breaking news. [laughter] has more on this. >> reporter: well, the redemption date for investors to pull their money out of acc capil was set inmate. you were talking about that big day, blackstone big investor was worry that that did not give them enough time to assess whether steve cohen and as a safe -- sac capitol would be indicted. a lot of people believed, the government as well, that july is when the statute of limitation on most of tho suspicious trades in this. that means the
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