mr. vice-president, great to see you again. >> thanks for coming to wyoming, sean. >> sean: this is going to be a great day. >> typical wyoming day in the summertime. >> sean: it's a little different in new york. hey, since i have seen you last, have you had this heart transplant, you have been through a lot. how hard has that been? >> well, hard... i am here. it's... it's really a miracle. it's a tremendous gift that somebody gave, obviously, in terms of -- their willingness to donate, the family's willingness to donate a heart. and when you have the advantage of going frommen-stage heart failure, to where you are really about to hang it up because your heart's not working to service all of your vital organs, to all of a sudden, you have a new heart and the expectation that you may live another 15 or 20 years, it's a miracle. it's a tremendous gift. yeah, there is some rocky momes along the way. but you always have to think about what the alternative was. it is a lot better than the alternative. >> sean: last time i saw you, you had your pack with you, you would pull it out and the alarm would go off and scare everybody around you. one thing you said to me. huyour first heart attack at 37, very young man. but technology has kept up with your life. >> exactly. yes. i have gone from the mid 70s, six heart attacks. and i had venticular fibrillation, when your heart stops beating. i was kept alive by an implanted set of paddles, in effect. i had the pump, i had the bypass. i had stents. aneurisms in both knees repaired with stents. the technology was always there when i needed it. something new in '78 when i started down that road. and treatment was like what eisenhower got 20 years before, there wasn't much they could do, they could wait and deal with the aftermath. of course, all of that has changed dramatically. you can have a heart attack, get him to the hospital, put a stint in and in a day or two, they are home. >> sean: i don't know that anybody has asked this yet. you are on a waiting list. you know you are on a waiting list. you weren't vocal. but you were on for a pretty long time, as i understand it. you get that call? >> i went on the waiting list at the same time they implanted the pumps back in july of 2010. and i was on the waiting list a total of 20 months. there is a very elaborate protocol who decide who is get it is what, when, when you go through the process. i can't begin to understand all the intricacies, but the pump aloud me to have another 20 months and in effect survive to get a transplant. we got a phone call, midnight on a friday night. lynn answered the phone. we were getting ready to go to bed. it was the doc saying, we have a new heart for you. so at that point, we had been anticipating this moment for sometime and having to adjust your schedule and so forth to be able to get to the hospital relatively in short order. but we went in and that morning, they operated. and removed the old, diseased heart and put the transplant in. >> sean: as you are going through that, though, you know it's a risky operation. >> uh-huh. >> sean: you are driving to the hospital, hu-- you know how much you love your wife, your family, that's tough -- or did you feel confident? >> you feel confident. i sort of addressed the issue of my mortality in my 30s when i had that first heart attack. i had to consider, can i have a normal career, can i do a campaign approximate run for office? i was in the middle of my first campaign. i remember asking my doctor if i will have to give up my hope for a political career. he said, hard work never killed anybody. that turned out to be very good medical advice, but also very good advice about living your life, go out and get with it. the trouble arises when you are doing something you don't enjoy doing. >> sean: those years in the white house, obviously very stressful. you are the vice-president, very tough times, 9/11, fight it would go wars. did you feel that things were getting worse over time? >> no, i was aware, you know, generally of the course of my heart disease would follow over time. we had consulted all the docs before i took the job as vice-president. it was their judgment and coolie from texas who, advised president bush, my cardiologist, and their basic judgment was that i was fit to campaign and fit to serve. and they were right. it was close. because i had my sixth heart attack shortly after the 2000 election. it wasn't a serious one. but if it had happened three or four weeks before, it might have been an issue in the campaign, and it wasn't. the fact is that i -- i had already -- by the time i got to the place where i am actively awaiting a transplant, you know, it's a ray of hope. it's the possibility of extending your life expectancy by maybe many, many years. it is not frightening or scary, it is exciting that you are going to have this opportunity. >> sean: coming up, the former v.p. opens up about our current president and takes us inside the vice-presidential selection process. plus, we hit the water as he takes me inside one of his favorite hobbies, fly fishing. and he will introduce us to a group that uses fishing to heal wounded soldier, both physically and mentally. caltrate's double the d. it now has more than any other brand to help maximize calcium absorption. so caltrate women can move the world. ♪ ♪ a simple gesture speaks to respect and respect speaks for itself. introducing the new jeep altitude editions. style looks better with substance. but don't just listen to me. listen to these happy progressive customers. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. you're not filming this, are you? aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. an intense burning sensation i woke up with this horrible rash on my right side. like somebody had set it on fire. and the doctor said, cindie, you have shingles. he said, you had chickenpox when you were a little girl... i said, yes, i did. i don't think anybody ever thinks they're going to get shingles. but it happened to me. for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com >> sean: we continue with my exclusive interview with former vice-president dick cheney. you were a big part of the decision-making process for... candidate bush, then president bush, for v.p. >> uh-huh. >> sean: interesting story. you told us once before how you and karl rove went before then governor bush and both explained why you shouldn't be the choice. >> exactly. >> sean: and i think it's one of the best stories i think i have heard in politics. >> well, i had been approached. he sent an emissary to see me early on in 2000, in the primary time, to see if i had any interest in being considered and i said, absolutely not. i like my job. vice-president is a lousy job. there are a lot of political arguments against it. so they went away. then he asked me to run the search. i said i can do that, it's a part-time kind of effort. we got through with the search and he said, you are the solution to my problem. my sense of it is that he never gave up, that i was always his first choice and when i said no, he said, well, i will keep him busy and get him involved and see what he beings a couple of months down the road. >> sean: pretty persistent. >> very persistent. he had given it a lot of thought. he spent a lotted of time on the important issues and often didn't convey that impression, but all the political advice he was getting, cheney, electoral vote, been in the oil business, heart disease, lay all of that out. and karl and i went down and this was one of the conditions, i said to the -- then governor, i said, i want the chance to come down and tell you all the reasons why it's a bad idea. >> sean: because you thought he was close to asking -- >> he said at that point, you are the solution to my problem. i said, well, i would look at it. but part of looking at it, you have to vet the veter and know all the negatives on me. karl had come to the same conclusion, based on his own political wisdom and judgment. we sat there together and told george bush, you know, you are making a bad decision. he said, i'll think about it. two days later, he called, he said, you're my guy. >> sean: karl rove sat there in front of and you governor bush and gave all the reasons why, dick cheney, should not be selected to be the vice-president. >> he and i were in total agreement. >> sean: what were his reasons? >> basically, that i was from a small state. i had been actively involved in the oil business, that there was always the possibility of health issues and so forth, that he could do better than chain neterms of finding somebody who would help with another wing of the party. i had a very conservative voting record in the house. there were bound to be points at which the democrats would attack me. and there were other options. we looked at everybody in the party, as you always do. >> sean: when you talk about barack obama, almost every speech is class warfare, tax cuts for the rich, et cetera, attacks on bain capital -- can that be successful politically? >> i hope not. what they never mention is the farkt that we have the most progressive tax system in the world, roughly 50% of the wailing earners don't pay any income tax. that the top 5% pay 50% of all the income tax. it's extraordinarily progressive. >> sean: top 10% pay 75. >> it's as though he doesn't know that or want to admit it. so to say we have to demand a fair share from the folks at the upper-income levels, it is a fair share. it's 70 or 75% for the top 10%, what does he want? 90%? what does that do to the economy? 2010, we came out of that election, he made the statements that a tax increase is the wrong thing to do because the economy's in recession. here we are, two years later, exactly the same conditions, nothing's changed. the economy's very precarious and he is for a tax increase. he is totally inconsistent, partly because i think he is trying to the one hand to maintain certain image, you know, strong on national defense, doesn't want to admit what he really believes about national defense. when he is on the teleprompter, he is putting out the party line. when hoe is off the teleprompter, he makes goofy statements. >> sean: he went back to it. >> he was making mistakes and saying what he really thought. >> sean: let me ask one follow-up on this, in terms of political strategy and tactics and your experience, having gone through a lot of campaigns in your life. it's gotten really personal, his surrogates have claimed he's a racist, harry reid insinuated that his father would be embarrassed by him. that he might be a felon... you know, that he -- these are statements about governor romney, cayman islands, an insinuation of criminal activity. how would you advise governor romney, when you are under attack, that way, that personally, how best to handle it? >> well, i think the... i think it's outrageous, the chars that they have made by the obama crew. i think that the right thing for governor romney to do is to continue to lay out his program for what he wants to do for americans. i think part of that is for him toto have surrogates that tell the truth about barack obama, about where he came from, what he stands for, what he believes, why he's done what he has done, point out the fact that he has been a disaster from an economic standpoint? >> coming up, more with vice-president cheney, including what he says is the one issue that president obama refuses to address. later, he brings me out on the snake river with wounded warriors to learn about the healing power of fishing and camping, straight ahead. >> sean: here's more of my interview with former vice-president dick cheney. >> you did say about governor romney that you felt he was somebody who could lead through an unanticipated crisis like 9/11. oftentimes, we focus on one issue in the campaign, this campaign is obviously very focused on the economy, rightly so. but the next president, you never know -- his biggest challenge may be a national security issue. that's what happened in your administration? >> it's almost a law that every administration or nearly every administration sooner or later will face a crisis they never anticipated, where they will have to deal with a situation that has developed sometimes, they got themselves fixed. but i can remember in the ford years, we were trying to deal with the aftermath of watergate, probably the worst constitutional crisis since the civil war. jerry ford never expected that -- hell, he never expected to be president. every administration, sooner or later is faced with a major challenge like that. in our case, it was 9/11 and the aftermath. and i think, you look at what barack obama's done. and he has walked away from it, refused to deal with thins, like, for example, the debt crisis. it's right there in front of everybody to see, to look at. i never hear thim talk effectively about what will happen if we don't address that issue. and i never see him seem to be serious about that issue? you say, he's trying to pretend that we are not at war. noose a pretty serious charge. >> before 9/11, we looked at terror attacks as a law enforcement problem. what we learned on 9/11, 3,000 dead americans is an act of war. and what you begin to recognize that it is an act of war, then you can bring to bear on it, the resources of the united states that wouldn't otherwise be applied, it's a law enforcement problem. bring the not bear on it, your intelligence capabilities and so forth. that's why it's important to have a firm understanding of the word war. clearly, i think with respect to the 9/11-type potential attacks, we are at war. >> sean: yeah. let me ask you about what i view as the rise of radical islamists. we see this now happening. they got it totally wrong on egypt. then the president there -- you know, here's a guy, muslim brotherhood, in the white house. in july, another militant group leader invite to the white house,ianet napolitano said others will follow. the muslim brotherhood organization -- is it a terrorist organization? >> it certainly has spawned a lot of terrorism. if you look at the spawning ground for that kind of radical view of islam that has been the intellectual foundation for groups like al qaeda. so i think it's a very serious propitition. a lot of -- proposition. a lot of people talk about the arab spring. i don't think we will be that happy with the arab spring if what emerges is a series of nations across the middle-east that you are now governed by the muslim brothers-- it's already happened. >> well, you look at what is happening on the various nations and egypt. >> sean: the israelis are vampires and killers, the muslim brotherhood in parliament said, prepare for war with israel. he said the koran is our -- koran is our constitution, shirria is our -- sharia is our guide. he said of the bush administration, the world's leader. we are giving $1.5 million to the muslim brotherhood that now leads egypt. is that a mistake. >> i would want to qualify your statement about the $1.5 billion. an awful lot goes to the egyptian military. i think eye know the -- [inaudible], i worked with him closely in the gulf war in desert storm. to the extent there has been significant u.s. assistance over the years, a lot of it has been to and through the egyptian military. i would keep that in mind. i think the egyptian military is the one force, politically capable of operating in egypt today and counter-balance, if you will, to the muslim brotherhood. so i would not imagine they would pull the plug on that assistance. >> sean: up next, we take things outdoors, as i join vice-president cheney on a fishing trip with wounded warriors and their healing. definitely >> welcome back to this special edition of hafnlt thousands of men and women are returning home from war with injuries. some are physical wounds that you can see, but some, like post traumatic stress disorder,or ptsd, are invisible n. wyoming, i joined vice-president dick cheney, as we went fly fishing about a remarkable group that provides rehabilitation for vets with both kinds of injury. it is called rivers of recovery. let's take a look at the great work they do every day. >> rivers of recovery is the outdoor-based recreational therapy program. it uses outdoor activities, such as fly fishing, camping and running rivers, combined with a medically designed curriculum to help combat veterans heal from psychological and physical injuries. >> four-day fly-fishing trip, we doioc abreathing exercises, relaxation techniques so if you are having an anxiety atook or a flashback, have you different ways to cope with it. >> they are bringing injured soldiers or guy who is have suffered from ptsz and they bring them out here. >> i fished with rivers of recovery before. it's a great program. justin, i am fishing with today, he has artificial legs, both legs. he's on full, qualified, certified guy on the snake river. he can do it all. >> the sergeant in the marine corps. i was in afghanistan. on my third tour, ended up... stepping on a flesh plate i.e.d. tblew off both my legs and messed up my right arm pretty good. >> i saw justin, june 23, 2008, the day he lost both of his legs. the memory stuck in my head was of him laying on the ground with no legs... being able to see him again kind of starts a new chapter, you know? new memories, good memory, instead of, you know, warfare and bloodshed. >> 8 weeks after i got hurt, i was here on the rivers of recovery trip, fly-fishing was a whole new thing for me. that's the first time i went. i became addicted. last year, made it a full-time position. like i said, addicted. i was part of the invasion force in iraq. i was injured in 2003. i had a left shoulder replacement and 2008, i have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress. i was on a cocktail of anti-depress ans and pain meds for my shoulder. at one point, i weighed 230 pounds. i had never fly fished before. i came to the program -- it was a life changer for me. i am no long or any meds at all. you know, i have lost a ton of weight. what differient eights rivers of recovery is the idea that we use the outdoors and the activities that build a sense of confidence and self-empowerment, it's the perfect platform to bring in these techniques that help them manage and mitigate anxiety and depression. >> there are all types of wounds. we have ptsd, we have tbi, we have the amputeees, anything can happen when you are over there. anything. >> while on active duty, i had hearing loss from a head injury. i have been diagnosed with ptsd and epilepsy. >> i am so calm. oc that water, fishing, you get to be very, very calm. >> it's really built a lot of confidence in those areas that the united states army and my unit have really been working to recuperate from. and that let me prove it to myself in gaining confidence. >> going to change me for the better. make me be less stressed. >>is coming back from tours in iscprak afghanistan, you -- iraq and afghanistan, the things that happened out there, it's on your mind a lot. makes me short tempered, not a nice person. i have been through a lot of different types of counseling, depression, anxiety... i even got into alcohol. >> up to the moment when i got on the plane, i was like, i don't want to g. i don't. but i hear about the experiences that these soldiers have when they come back, and i am like, i want to be that person. have that story. packed up, got a ride to the airport. came over. and i took all of that negativity and just threw it out the window. >> coming out here like this, you know, it is calming. usually everybody's pr