that's the catch. >> well, and i think the corrupt intent thing is interesting because i think that actually -- here's what i -- here's how i see what they're doing right now, norm. the president tonight is at a rally. and there's a bunch of people in t-shirts, wearing t-shirts that say "read the transcript." which i agree with them, everyone should read the transcript because it shows the president corruptly using his office toco everyone's erce an nation into digging up dirt. if he tells people to read the transcript, it's like the russia, if you're listening moment. if he does it in public and essentially just owns the crime, that that somehow retroactively washes it of its corrupt intent. what do you think? >> absolutely. we're seeing all kinds of ploys here used by the president and others being picked up by the republicans in congress. a part of it is the tried and true chico marx defense, who are you going to believe, me or your own eyes when you look at the