>> mr. kippins, i am -- i am struck by this whole thing, because as i said in the open, the 1970s specifically from that time, the black population at harvard grew, as a direct result frankly of affirmative action programs. those alumni's children would in fact be considered legacy, should they apply to harvard. so, do you have any concern that getting rid of legacy admissions would eliminate a pipeline that some black families actually had access to them, and been building, and other families of color in recent decades? >> well, my response to that would be that we at lawyers for civil rights are seeking a level playing field, a field in which a person's individual merit is what gets them admitted to the school. at this point, with this particular federal civil rights complaint, that is what we are seeking. that is what we are urging the department of education to enforce. and with respect to that number of people who have attended