made, which is that nato foreswear any future expansion and rule out ever admitting ukraine. even though they're not planning to admit ukraine anytime soon, that's not on the table. that's sort of a made-up claim by putin to some extent, they don't want to allow russia to determine other countries' ability to decide who they align with. and that's a red line for biden and the west. so what it is that would be good enough for putin without compromising principles on the part of the american's and the european's is still anybody's guess at this point. >> matt, meanwhile, in kyiv, we're not seeing the same sense of urgency and panic in ukraine that we're seeing from the u.s., but there has to be some growing unease in ukraine about the potential invasion. i mean, especially with 100 or 150,000 or so troops masked on three sides of the country. >> yeah, exactly, jose. it's one of the more baffling aspects of this, is the ukrainian government's really, almost cavalier, blase position in all of this.