insurance policy idea if it was about the bidens? >> it didn't make any sense. >> but here's also part of the thing. you have to remember donald trump is like -- because he's a cult-like leader, he gets people and he isolates them from everybody else. rudy doesn't listen to his advisors anymore. he's caught into that web of trump. so he may feel he knows other things. maybe he's he just talking trump's language. maybe he's just making a whole mess of it so we talk about it for all i know. >> that's part of the problem too, right? because if you worked for any elected official, there are all these sort of extra governmental people around, right? folks that sort of operate outside of the bureaucracy and outside of the normal channels of the office. but there's never been someone whose hands have been in so much that has created such a disaster for this presidency. and for the american people to operate this sort of shadow democracy. that's what's just so scary about it because i can't imagine any elected official, republican or democrat, allowing someone this much leverage. to go interact with foreign -- foreign actors. >> that's the one we know about. maybe there's someone with not such a high profile doing trump's work too. we don't know. >> we do not know. but we will continue this discussion in just a moment. talk next about democrat steps on impeachment. stay with us for that.