that could be readily interseptded by a number of foreign governments but in this case particularly russia given how wired the country of ukraine is by russian intelligence. >> now, you did write in -- you said to "the washington post" -- you quoted by saying the security ramifications are insane. using an open cellphone to communicate with the president of the united states in a country you can almost take it to bank that the russians were listening in on the call. would you presume that the russians have a recording of the call, a transcript of the call? basically information they now hold over the held of the president of the united states? >> that's absolutely a clear possibility. and i'd be almost embarrassed for them if they weren't targeting ambassador sondland, the people at the embassy either through electronic means, through some kind of sensitive means or just having people walking around in the restaurant or sitting near them in the