impasse. the democrats are people who would like to believe the other side also wants to play by the rules. they are not really set up as a combative party. this is their basic problem. >> yes, it is. it very much is. one last quick question. is there a danger we obsess too much over secret documents, leaked documents, power point slides, in the chief of staff's e-mail inbox? because we are so used to treating only secret things as scandals and not the public evidence of a coup we've had before us since january 6th? even if there were no leaked memos or body cam videos we just showed we'd still have trump inciting the attack on the capitol on january 6th in public. trump has always done the quiet part out loud which i think kind of numbs us to his authoritarian and racist tendencies >> i think in a strange way the details are comforting because we can focus on the individual scandalous detail and lose sight of the overall picture which is very clear. the overall picture is we had a president of the united states, sitting president, try to carry out a coup de tat.