Ari melber sitting in for lawrence tonight. We begin with developments in a story lawrence brought you last night. A turkish official now telling nbc with 100 confidence the saudis executed the missing journalist Jamal Khashoggi. And late today we learned even more of this alleged audio recording. Nbc news Richard Engel reporting the source of that audio recording when he joined us on msnbc just earlier this evening. So these are stunning new details. They put a whole new twist on this story about what happened to Jamal Khashoggi when he went into the consulate behind me. Weve been reporting all day now that there are these recordings. Turkish officials have recordings inside the embassy, inside the consulate being tortured, being beaten, being interrogated and ultimately being murdered. But theres been a big question, where did these recordings come from . Tonight a progovernment turkish newspaper and saying that khashoggi recorded these messages himself, that he went into the consulate very suspicious. He thought something bad might happen to him. He asked his fiancee to wait outside. He gave her his cellphones, but according to this newspaper, he went into the consulate wearing an apple watch, which he synced up with one of those cellphones outside so that the information would be transmitting. So that whatever happened to him while he was inside the consulate was being up loaded to a cloud and being saved. And that he went in and terrible things did in fact happen to him, that he was murdered, interrogated and tortured, and that he with this act of foresight, this act of cunning really left behind the clues that turkish authorities are using to solve his murder. To solve his murder. Well, lets be clear, the solving of this murder in almost ro realtime and in public is putting new more significant pressure on the Trump Administration for its stance and any potential punishment that it would consider for saudi arabia in retaliation. And while lets be clear administrations in both parties have often cozied up to the saudis as a dangerous but useful ally in the region, donald trump is not only following that controversial approach and precedent, hes doing so with far less discretion that some other past president s who would at least use the bullying pulpit to press the saudis on u. S. Priorities. Instead claiming that relations with the saudis are excellent, and push back from his interviews on fox news, and also saying he hasnt called saudi arabia to discuss this. Here he was this evening. Nobody knows quite yet. Nobodys been able to put it all together. People are starting to form ideas, and theyre formed well let you know. But it certainly is a terrible thing. Had their record otherwise been overlooked too long . I think a lot of records have been overlooked. You take a look at syria, a lot of countrys records have been overlooked. But this is very serious thing and were looking at it in a very serious manner. And well see you again, a big crowd. I will be calling them. Well, the American Government under trump may be holding back. Others announcing theyll be suspending business with the saudis. That includes Media Companies like the times and bloomberg. The head of the World Bank Also drawing a line here. Dropping a conference is a Pretty Simple step. It wont have an impact on the saudis but it does send a message and try to build towards more unified national condemnation. But lets be clear, even that step is apparently still too much for the Trump Administration as of tonight. You had leaders elsewhere pulling out of the event. Are you still determined that you will attend at this point given that there is still, i think, no clarity as to what has happened to mr. Khashoggi, the Washington Post journalist. I am planning ongoing at this point. If more information comes out and changes, we can look at that. But i am planning ongoing. Thank you. Well, i guess a lot of people are going over to the investment conference. Joining us now michael iskov, and evelyn farkas, former Deputy Assistant secretary of defense and msnbc analyst. Evelyn, there are plenty of hauroihau haroiha harrowing things that happen in state craft, but it seems to make it an extraordinary breach. What president s or Historical Context do you think of when you look at this, and what more, afghanistan, should the United States do . I mean, ari, its shocking. First of all, im appalled at the fact our administration is behaving as if they dont know anything, because i think its probably pretty credible as the New York Times and other Media Outlets have reported that the turkish officials have said that they already told the United States and gave our government their intelligence. So the fact i mean i think the treasury secretary should be saying unless i find out information, you know, proves that hes alive and he wasnt murdered by the saudis, im not going. I guess the thing i thought of because i spend so much time on russia the condemnation that the world and certainly europeans and we together with the canadians in the transatlantic sense expressed about murders of the residents of the United Kingdom and citizens of the United Kingdom by the russians, especially those that were committed using chemical weapons. And here we have another case where well find out how clearcut it is, but i think we need to hear more from governments. And because this is journalist, i think our president needs to speak out. Because we know you know. Youve covered it very clearly here on your program, on the beat, you know, that this president has spoken with alarming words again journalists. So i think its incumbent on him to speak clearly right now, to get to the bottom of this and to tell the American People what he already knows. Right. And you make the reference to extra judicial killings abroad, which have the geographic overlap that russia will also go into other countries and take people out. Michael, one big difference is some of their targets have been what you might call exspies or people they view in a way as an intelligence combatant, certainly debatable. But as evelyn emphasizes, this isnt even near that. You say that khashoggi crossed this line that made him a marked man and probably led to his brutal death. This is according to your discussions with at least one of his close friends. He dared to criticize the crown prince. Explain, michael. You know, this stung for mbs, mohamed been salaman, because he was a man whod been closely tied to the royal family, been a top advisor to the and later the saudi ambassador to the United Kingdom. His criticism was very much from somebody inside the tent. And thats what i think outraged the mbs and his clique around him so much because he was a respected voice, he had a huge megaphone thanks to that the Washington Post column. And to have him questioning mohammed been salamans reformist credentials, saying hes arresting the wrong people. And then just recently writing a column calling on the saudis to end their cruel war in yemen, it was i think i think it was a view that he had crossed a line and the saudis did what they apparently did here. So that analysis makes sense but obviously anyone listening would say if you were concerned that someone from inside your own network is sort of calling you out for this kind of attack on the free press, and then you go ahead and execute that person, that would seem to reinforce among other things that very critique. So that goes to what they thought this would do, is that they didnt think it would break this way internationally, or they dont care about International Cover of it and theyre going to handle spin at home. How do you make sense of that . Truly thats an important question, how could they have been so clueless as to think they could get away with this . For years the saudis have on retainer former cia officials, former state department officials, a whole coatary of washington lobbyist and officials to advise them what they could get away with and what they could not get away him. Hes someone clearly confident of himself, doesnt feel he has to play by the same rules, viewed himself as a reformer. He was trying to get all this street cred as someone whos allowing women to drive and making other modest reforms. And i think he was sort of a little bit divorced from reality as to how this would play out. One other point that i want to make thats in our article, this is based on an interview with one of khashoggis very close friends, someone who was talking to regularly over the last few months khalid safori and he said, look, you cannot take out of the equation President Trumps trump hates journalists, and he would not react if we kill one. I think that was, you know, very likely the way this was processed in riyadh given the we all now expect and come to view, you know, as almost the daily President Trump saying sort of offthewall things and a lot of people in the United States no longer take them seriously. But people around the world do hear this rhetoric. People do hear a president calling the press the enemy of the people. And when they hear that, they might take it more seriously than many people in this country do, and that may have been what happened here. Michael, to button that up, do you think there is some notion of u. S. Contributing role, liability here, that they should clean that up . Not conscious, but i think this is the kind of inevitable, you know, byproduct of the kind of outlandish rhetoric we sometimes hear from the president. Evelyn . Well, i was just going to answer that to say in effect, you know, our president went to saudi arabia first. It was the first country he visited. Not canada, which would be normal, what the most conventional president s would do, not mexico, our neighbors. But he went to saudi arabia where they already have a mixed history in terms of there, you know, foreign and domestic policy. Now you have a crown prince on the scene who thinks that he in effect is running saudi arabia, although his elderly father the king is notionally in charge. Hes running the country now, and hes kind of running a jekyll and hyde policy. Hes loosening up reforms and trying to attract while at the same time while he allows women to drive, he jails some of the original women who called for the driving. He put his Family Members under house arrest, which are in effect basically the people who are running saudi arabia, the rich relatives let me push you on that and also show another diplomat whos also a former u. S. Ambassador because a lot of folks in the National Security community are still, you know, quite careful about how everyone talks about saudi arabia no matter what they seem to do because they seem to have this stranglehold as a real politics and strategic ally. Here he is only using question marks to say what he has to say which i think theyre responsible. Take a look. I think this is the worst moment in u. S. Saudi relations since 9 11. The question then were the saudis friend or foe. I think weve got similar questions going on right now. The time has come for us to stand up and show some leadership on this issue. I guess you could say hes a good diplomat, evelyn, because he didnt quite say anything. Are they friend or foe . Do you care to answer . I dont think its an issue of friend or faux. The question is what are global interests globally and domestically. And the question about arms sales, which President Trump threw out there as sort of an excuse why he was not doing anything about what looks like was the murder of this journalist who was a permanent member of the United States, was oh, we have 100 billion in arms sales going with the saudis. First of all, we dont have that. On paper they agreed to that. I think thats fair. But bush and obama were never going to do much against the saudis either. Unless somebody warrants to say actually were going to tilt our oil, financial and military plans so were less reliant on them. Well, i think this is bridge too far. Although many people would argue that yemen was already a bridge too far. We had i believe it was in september the bombing of the school bus with the children dying. We know there are about i think 20 Million People at risk of famine, you know, and drought and lack of medical assistance. So there are people in dire straights in yemen because of the way the saudis have been fighting that war. In fact khashoggi was most recently consistently criticizing that i think as michael said. But its reached the point now where we have to reassess this relationship, and we may not need the saudis as much as we thought we did. I think its been bad policy on the part of this administration to swing so far towards the saudis because we need to maintain a balanced relationship in the gulf area, and also with regard to iran, we dont need to be sucked into the saudiiranian rivalry as much as we have been under this administration. A lot of interesting points here on a fascinating, harrowing and profoundly disturbing story. Thanks to you. Coming up a key judge in a new order that reaches back all the way to watergate and provides what some are calling a blueprint for potential impeachment if mueller wants that kind of report. Later dozens of children separated from their families tonight as a result of Trump Administration policies. But a shocking new story you need to hear about a 5yearold child asked to sign away their own legal right. That important story coming up later. Bathroom. No fees on loans to consolidate your credit card debt. See no fees just feels good. Boo yeah. 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It helps all of us. Have you noticed how quiet the Mueller Probe has been lately . You know, as recently as august there were those guilty pleas from top names like manafort and cohen. But laty nothing. That is of course for a reason youre probably familiar with. Were a month out from an election, and doj guidance, not a law but guidance discourages any move that could interfere with political races. A federal judge ordering a partial release of a kwaurtigate report that informs Congress Impeachment proceedings against nixon. This is the blueprint essentially for nixons removal. Even ken starr not to got to see it because of the order they have for the archives. And this is not a coincidence. Legal scholars sued for the release of this road map because of the current moment were laving in. They suggest that both mueller and the public could benefit how knowing how the famous watergate prosecutor who finished that up, used the information that was found in the investigation to try and give congress clear facts and legal context for whatever they wanted to do. Let me read, quote, the primary significance of the document lies in its role a template for subsequent impeachment referrals. And they say, look, the road map would be a vital touchstone for the public and congress to assess his action. We have some perfect guests for this. Jill winebanks and barbara mcquade. Both msnbc legal analysts, or as we call them legal eagles. Jill, on the watergate front, how is this different from all the other vuloluminous watergat material that has come out . Im sure he hasnt seen it because he has followed the rules completely, so he wont have seen it. It is correctly described in the decision by the judge as being basically just a very short index to the documents that we provided to the house. And the difference now is that its not a house that was actively investigating the president , a house that we felt we could trust to take the evidence and do something with it. Right now a report to the house could end up going absolutely nowhere because theyve shown time and time again their total lack of interest in getting to the truth. So we turned over a briefcase that we called a road map to impeachment. We did not specify crimes. We said heres the evidence that we have thats relevant. And we did it on the day that we indicted all the president s top advisers and named him a secret unindicted coconspirator. We didnt identify him by name until a bill of particulars later. And so the only way that we could get the information to the congress, which did not have the Legal Authority under the Court Decisions to get the same documents we had was to use the Inherent Authority of the grand jury and to get the judges permission to turn over this information. And i think that mueller has the same opportunity to use the Inherent Authority of the grand jury to let Congress Know the facts that he has. Now, we dont know what those facts are. Ours were very dramatic and very clear. But if he has that kind of evidence, im hoping that he will give to the congress and that he will us